u-he

atmelcool · Post by **atmelcool** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:51 am

I sat for the synthesizer Zebra2 for four hours, I wanted to make the sound of an acoustic guitar, but I could not. All the time sounds a sound, not like strings. Look at the preset, please. What am I doing wrong? Thank you!

Marian W · Post by **Marian W** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:28 am

I would say more Damp (Comb), less Detune (Comb), less Release (Env1) and maybe a Lp Filter afterwards (Cutoff at 138 or lower).

You should try out the Split Dual combfiltermode as well.

I attached 2 Plucks with 2 different approaches from me which ended up sounding like a Guitar.
Play short notes or turn down the sustain and decay.
You might want to turn off the delay and reverb of one of the presets.

Cheers

atmelcool · Post by **atmelcool** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:43 pm

Marian W wrote: I attached 2 Plucks with 2 different approaches from me which ended up sounding like a Guitar.
Play short notes or turn down the sustain and decay.
You might want to turn off the delay and reverb of one of the presets.
Cheers

Thanks for your reply! I understand on zebra is not possible to wind the sound of an acoustic guitar, still the sound is not like. I used your advice to use a comb filter, but still it does not look like it's closer
What properties does the guitar string have to try to create its emulation on the synthesizer? Thank you!

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:15 pm

Depends... how realistic a guitar are you trying to make?

drzhnn · Post by **drzhnn** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:00 pm

IMO, the comb filter in not the best way to create guitar sounds. It is the easiest one though

Guitar sounds (and pluck sounds in general) have a very specific attack portion. That's what makes them, well... plucks. So in order to recreate those sounds, one needs to focus on the articulation, rather than the timbre.

Another thing is that the played strings on a real guitar are sustained by default and muted by a hand when needed. On a MIDI keyboard it's the other way around. That means the release portion on the synth patch should be short, and sustained with a controller when needed.

Here's the example patch. It's actually 2 in 1. The lane 1 of the Main Grid (muted by default) uses only a Comb module. The second lane utilizes a more flexible scheme.

3ee · Post by **3ee** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:45 pm

drzhnn wrote:IMO, the comb filter in not the best way to create guitar sounds. It is the easiest one though

if you use it in the "traditional" way, then you're probably right...

try to feed a different impulse through it and control that.. as well as just about every parameter on the comb module via mod matrix

Razzia · Post by **Razzia** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:55 am

The problem with trying to replicate a guitar with a synth is there's a lot of inharmonic stuff in there that can be tricky to reproduce with a synth. Hence the metallic sound. More inharmonic content at the higher end of the spectrum = more metallic sound.

You need some additive/spectral synthesis to really closely emulate a guitar. I've barely used Zebra, but I feel pretty sure it had some oscillator functions that allow you to mess with the spectrum. Check out those. If you have Harmor, the prism knob, and also those weird detune sections work really well for this. For offsetting the harmonic relationship between the partials.

3ee · Post by **3ee** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:28 pm

Razzia wrote:The problem with trying to replicate a guitar with a synth is there's a lot of inharmonic stuff in there that can be tricky to reproduce with a synth. Hence the metallic sound. More inharmonic content at the higher end of the spectrum = more metallic sound.

how much is "a lot" ?
why do you associate metallic character with inharmonic timbres so much?

In this case, I think the sound/color comes from the body of the instrument more. the strings excite the body and the body resonates + there is a feedback/sympathetic element to it as well... that's more tricky to "logically" emulate with the given modules/architecture of the synth.

I think that there are some "few" inharmonic elements involved mostly related with the attack of the sound..

Razzia · Post by **Razzia** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:59 am

why do you associate metallic character with inharmonic timbres so much?

It's something I read when I was trying to learn to make certain types of sounds, and it's worked for me. When I want something to sound metallic, I'll typically bend some of the higher harmonics into/away from each other.

Do you have a better method? Or understand something I don't about making metallic timbres? Assuming you're the same 3ee from many of the uhe presets, you're obviously skilled. I'd be happy to hear what you have to say about it.

I think that there are some "few" inharmonic elements involved mostly related with the attack of the sound..

Well the guy's preset was named GuitarSteel. If I were trying to make a steel string acoustic guitar sound, I'd want it to have some metallic timbre to make it a little more distinct from a regular synth pluck, but maybe that's just me.

3ee · Post by **3ee** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:25 pm

Do you have a better method? Or understand something I don't about making metallic timbres?

some metallic timbres are highly inharmonic, correct... but in the case of the GTR, the tone is mostly harmonic as far as I can tell... you should carefully emulate how a GTR pick sounds and run that through a controlled comb-filter, it's that simple and it will sound pretty accurate!

next, tune another impulse so sound like the body... it should sound more resonant and diffused..

check out this simple "starting-point" patch..
https://app.box.com/s/met84vowr97gp7k7q123kcgi96n8v34g

you can make just about any string instrument if you emulate the attack and body impulses correctly, + envelopes (shape and time) are extremely important

another tip would be: envelopes have "delay" ... you can maybe try a greater value when playing softly for a more "raked" action and bring it towards minimum with higher velocity.

atmelcool · Post by **atmelcool** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:30 pm

3ee wrote: check out this simple "starting-point" patch..
https://app.box.com/s/met84vowr97gp7k7q123kcgi96n8v34g

I liked your patch, it's more like a guitar. Could you tell us how you created it in steps? How much time did you spend to create it? Did you already know what kind of waveforms you need in oscillators or picked up by ear? What were you guided by or what did you imagine creating a waveform? Thank you!

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:40 pm

Here are a few plucked or struck string type sounds made in Zebra... my effort is not accurate emulation, but rather catching the appealing spirit of stringed instruments.

http://draigathar.org/sounds/detar.mp3
http://draigathar.org/sounds/Stringzz2.mp3
http://draigathar.org/sounds/evoltring.mp3
http://draigathar.org/sounds/pluck5.mp3

If you are gonna use the comb module, then use an Osc as the exciter. Put a super short env on the Osc so it is quick transient and feed that into the comb module.

Envelope shape and slope matters a lot. Also, some sounds I put a second Osc at a much lower level with a bit longer envelope and some attack to create string buzz or sympathetic resonance. Sometimes I use the second comb module for that. But before doing any experimenting with that extra complexity, spend some time just with 1 Osc into 1 Comb Module.

It is possible to make all sorts of great string type sounds without the comb modules too. But using the comb modules are the easier place to start.

atmelcool · Post by **atmelcool** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:02 pm

pdxindy wrote:
http://draigathar.org/sounds/detar.mp3
http://draigathar.org/sounds/Stringzz2.mp3
http://draigathar.org/sounds/evoltring.mp3
http://draigathar.org/sounds/pluck5.mp3

Cool. Thank you!

mcnoone · Post by **mcnoone** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:48 pm

Here's a guitar emulation I did a long time ago.
Might be useful.

3ee · Post by **3ee** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:59 am

atmelcool wrote:
3ee wrote: check out this simple "starting-point" patch..
https://app.box.com/s/met84vowr97gp7k7q123kcgi96n8v34g
I liked your patch, it's more like a guitar. Could you tell us how you created it in steps? How much time did you spend to create it? Did you already know what kind of waveforms you need in oscillators or picked up by ear? What were you guided by or what did you imagine creating a waveform? Thank you!

done by ear but I did search on the web the guitar body resonance freq to better tune the body impulse..
in the future, I should get more technical and then fine-tune by ear maybe..

1st of all, play with the comb module and get it sounding close to a plucked string.. + get a feel what every knob does so to keep in mind to program kb and vel mods in the mod matrix.

then, instead of the impulse coming from it ('prefil') ... make your own impulse to sound more like what you're trying to emulate. envelopes (exact time and shape) also play an important role here

for example, in this example I played with 2 impulses IIRC, osc1 for string/pluck and osc2 more for the resonance of the body.. they need different envelopes to sound more natural though..

if say: "It takes sound about 3 milliseconds to travel 1 meter" ... so the guitar body depth is about 10 cm, that means that the body impulse env should be delayed by about 0.3 ms

from the strings

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Zebra2 Sound design needs help guru!