Example of audio editing weakness in Tracktion

[bungle]

This gif shows a fundamental weakness in audio editing (For some people, not wanting to create hurt here for people who don't do audio edits)
Four things shown here in this few second audio edit that would take a much longer time in Tracktion (Try it) but also be very cumbersome in Tracktion.
Note these could all be tick boxes in the settings so people who don't do audio edits wouldn't have to ever even turn it on.


1 As you can see i am editing while playing back, this is needed for these kinds of micro edits so that you can hear what you do as you do it (Not having this is the cumbersome part in Tracktion) this is achieved by separating the edit cursor from the playback cursor.
2 On the second edit at the end, notice how i chop out a very small closed hi hat clip, then happily copy and paste it, again this is cumbersome in Tracktion because (this may be an OSX thing) you cant even see it anymore, it has now just become what looks like an empty clip (See image below) keep in mind here that this edit in Tracktion worked, you just cant see the edit.
3 Notice how i am grabbing the clip edits anywhere in the clip itself, Tracktion is actually a bit of puzzler in this regard, when the clip is very small, you cant see the content but grabbing the top bar is extremely easy because it has gotten rid of the buttons, but as soon as you have a slightly bigger clip it becomes harder to grab because of those very buttons appearing, leaving you a smaller mouse catchment area.
4 I have the exact snap grid i want without zooming in and out, this is something that is definately very useful for micro editing.






1 Really is simple, have an option to have a separate edit and playback cursor.

2 Like i say this could actually be a bug.

3 Is less simple, a tickbox to make the entire clip grabable would me my preferred option, but you could also do it as a list of options like you have with other options.
Clip mouse behaviour
A. Mouse only grabs top bar of clip
B. Mouse grabs top bar of clip but has shortcut to grab entire clip area
C. Mouse grabs entire clip area

4 Right click on the snap button lower right panel, have a list of static snap grid sizes.

I hope this post is clearer in explaining how powerful these types of audio edits are.
Cheers

[AGreen]

If you don't mind me saying, you seem to show a lack of creative thinking about how something like this might be done in Waveform or another daw. All you have to do is split the beats in to slices before you start play and then you can stretch them and duplicate them to your hearts content. I get annoyed when people make endless negative comments about things without ever thinking about alternative ways of doing things. Most of your comments about waveform seem to me to be related to workflow habits rather than an absolute impossibility to achieve these things.

When I'm demoing a new daw I search high and low to find solutions to doing something if the daw doesn't do it the way I'm used to or lacks a particular function. There is often more than one way to do things or a way to make creative use of other functions. Waveform can be good in this respect because of it's flexibility. I've already found a way to use modulators as vca's for example.

Reaper is a powerful daw but it's also rather conventional and doesn't have the creative feel of a daw like Waveform or Live or Bitwig. You have to consider the whole feature set and make a decision on the daw based on your personal use senario. For me Waveform is head and shoulders above Reaper because Reaper doesn't have Melodyne integration or the pattern generator which is immensely useful for creating parts and experimenting with rhythms and chord progressions. You can have many "happy accidents" using the pattern generator that lead in all sorts of useful and unexpected directions. Going to Reaper and not having these functions feels like having one arm chopped off. It's almost unbearable. For someone who creates parts for their own songs and uses Melodyne to convert guitar parts to midi and also wants to experiment with chord and song progression, Waveform is superb. At $99 it's fantastic value for money.

[dRowAudio]

Yes, we understand the use cases for this kind of thing, it's just that Tracktion was originally created to simplify DAWs and avoid having to worry about snap resolution, independent playback and cursors, selection and loop regions etc. Obviously simplifying these kinds of things reduces flexibility in other areas.

I can say, as we progress we are looking in to these kinds of issues and as our user base grows we know there are more requirements to be met. We of course want to keep the Tracktion ethos so it's about finding an elegant way to do these things.

[Lutin mutin]

Hi Bungle !

Please, select the DAW that really has the workflow you want, and don't be one of those people who wants always only what they don't have !!
So, if you want a a girlfriend (or a boyfriend) with the face of girl #1, with the eyes of girl #2, the shoulders of girl #3, the legs of girl #4, etc, etc... the best solution is to have lessons in painting...

I can understand that people want all the best of all the DAWs in only one DAW. So, they want only one DAW on the market ?
And if the team do it, there will be an other reason that because they are satisfied, the DAW finally don't interest them... because in order to satisfy all the requests, the DAW witch was simple, ergonomic and creative has become a monster. And the customers want only simple and ergonomic tools... and because nobody want a monster, nobody buys the monster... and the monster dies...

I don't say that only because I am a big fan of the tracktion DAW from the beginning.
I say that because I see and I read the same comments for that kind of requests for all sophisticated tools : synths, effects, DAWs, etc...

So please : if you have finded the DAW which do exactly what you like to do (your above example), please keep it and work and create music with it !

I wish all the best to you !

[vitocorleone123]

As an amateur hobbyist, I specifically chose to NOT get a "professional" DAW like Cubase (I used it long ago for awhile, along with Cakewalk just before it became SONAR). And I stick with Tracktion-now-Waveform because it's so comparatively easy to use. Yes, some things are sacrificed for the sake of simplicity, but it remains, in my mind and use, the overall best DAW for people that aren't producing and mixing professional work (though it could be used for that, too, but it doesn't have all the little tiny minutia you can find in Cubase, Studio Pro, etc.).

Off the top of my head, the only way to incorporate some of that advanced stuff, is to "blow up" the "single window" UX, which is already starting to fray at the edges by being able to move the mixer to another screen. That is, all the pieces become modular that snap together really easily and intelligently, and it'd default to the current look-and-feel. Then, you could drag and drop and resize (maybe only 2-3 sizes or something not infinite drag to resize capability) the "modules" you want or need - this'd also really help maximize the use of 2 screens.

That's not a trivial amount of work to design and implement and test (and hopefully do user research) to nail. I'd personally rather the developers spend their time fixing and refining the great stuff already there.

[bungle]

OK message received, I shall leave and never update traction again.

[vitocorleone123]

OK message received, I shall leave and never update traction again.

I think one of the messages is: Tracktion can do a lot for a lot of people, but if it can't do what you want the way you need/want it to and, in fact, what you're wanting is somewhat against the entire ethos of the prodcut, then, yes, maybe it isn't the product for you and another DAW would be a better choice. I think it's great that you tried AND that you voiced your desires because it does show that you care and it prompted one of the developers to seriously take it into consideration and reply.

[AGreen]

OK message received, I shall leave and never update traction again.

bungle, we all want change and improvement and Waveform is getting better and better, what we don't want is a sense of entitlement and an attitude of dismissive contempt. Even the title of your first post "Tried returning to Tracktion or whatever it is now called" oozes a certain contempt.

You're a bit like someone who demo's a new version of Cubase and then starts demanding multiple changes to the way it does things immediately after release and while the devs are still trying to deal with bugs and problems reported by the users. When you say that the things you suggest are simple fixes I would say how do you know? Daws are immensely complicated and changing something like editing behaviour might need an almost complete rewrite of the arrangement window functionality. It might be a six month project and you want it right now, even as the devs are trying to sort out other problems. This functionality is often baked in at a level that makes changes non-trivial.

Why not approach things from the perspective of politely suggesting improvements along the lines of "It might be nice if" and maybe praising a few of the new features that are very good? That way you come across as balanced rather than angry. It's no good getting angry if a daw doesn't suit you because chances are you will wait a long time for the exact feature you want to come along. How long have Reaper users wanted Melodyne integration?

[bungle]

Please stop replying to me, i said i would leave, no need to reply, I had hoped for updates on Tracktion since v1, probably been buying it longer than most here, i already said i will no longer post or buy Tracktion, this place is nothing like it was and never will be, complaints and suggestions are met with hostility and sexual swear words.
Literally the worst user forum here at KVR, and probably the reason Tracktion is never mentioned anywhere outside of here.
If complaints are dealt with like this, Tracktion is finally done.

[rhydermike]

@bungle

It's an interesting post. Personally, I'm really in favour of number 4, set snap sizes, even if the "auto" setting was the default.

[chico.co.uk]

Please stop replying to me, i said i would leave, no need to reply, I had hoped for updates on Tracktion since v1, probably been buying it longer than most here, i already said i will no longer post or buy Tracktion, this place is nothing like it was and never will be, complaints and suggestions are met with hostility and sexual swear words.
Literally the worst user forum here at KVR, and probably the reason Tracktion is never mentioned anywhere outside of here.
If complaints are dealt with like this, Tracktion is finally done.

Oh, just f**k off.

[jens]

this is achieved by separating the edit cursor from the playback cursor

I think that's asking a bit much - if you'd instead ask for an option (perhaps via key-modifier) to split at the mouse-cursor instead of Tracktion's position-cursor, your request might be a bit more realistic.

[jens]

. All you have to do is split the beats in to slices before you start play and then you can stretch them and duplicate them to your hearts content.

Actually it's also possible to split in realtime during playback - listen, get into the groove and throw them sharpened scissors whenever it's due - treat it like an Instrument - that's also the sexier way of doing it
(you can easily fine-tweak your cuts afterwards - chances are you'll have to do that anyway)

[bungle]

Please stop replying to me, i said i would leave, no need to reply, I had hoped for updates on Tracktion since v1, probably been buying it longer than most here, i already said i will no longer post or buy Tracktion, this place is nothing like it was and never will be, complaints and suggestions are met with hostility and sexual swear words.
Literally the worst user forum here at KVR, and probably the reason Tracktion is never mentioned anywhere outside of here.
If complaints are dealt with like this, Tracktion is finally done.

Oh, just f**k off.

And this is the level of user is it ?

[bungle]

this is achieved by separating the edit cursor from the playback cursor

I think that's asking a bit much - if you'd instead ask for an option (perhaps via key-modifier) to split at the mouse-cursor instead of Tracktion's position-cursor, your request might be a bit more realistic.

Erm split at mouse cursor instead of play cursor is the literal definition of separating edit cursor from play cursor ?