Better additional workstation like filters for MPS

[MacGyver]

Hello again,

I am missing some typical Korg like / Workstation like and also analogue like filter types. Also the saturation does seem to fulfil common auditive standards, IMHO. Though the current filter surely are great for specific music genres, it lacks of more smooth characteristics for 12dB/24dB and also a crisp saturation vs. the current more raw smearing.

Could you add some common 12dB/24dB analogue style filters modules?

For filter reference maybe have a listen to:
Korg Polysix, Korg MonoPoly, U-He Zebra 2

For filter saturation reference maybe have a listen to:
U-He Zebra 2, Repro 1

Also I missing a pre-filter saturation mode, which is commonly available in all hardware VAs.

[MeldaProduction]

Hi again

ok now I'm a bit confused - these filters are there in the Filter tab, so what exactly am I missing? Also both filters have pre-distortion and post-saturation.

[pone]

Well, powersynth has a lot of filters but they don't sound "good" at all settings to most analogue sound enthusiasts. Maybe MTurboPowersynth would be required? Essentially an mxxx preset with powersynth emulating and analogue synth with maybe 60 total parameters (effects and everything) with that machine learning magic that was used for MTurboComp and MTurboEQ.

I personally don't like filter sounds at all.

[MeldaProduction]

Yep, the "too much versatility" might be an issue. But from what I checked most synths just use ordinary LP12/24 with a reasonable resonance (say 0.5-5). You could start with that.

[MacGyver]

I did not explain too accurately. Sorry for this. So trying again

First of all, I want to revise that the MPS filters do not sound good to me. They sound very well -
only I believe that it lacks a bit of some extra portion of ear candiness:

Comparing to a workstation like 12dB analog emu filter:
- MPS filter with full resonance does not seem to have such much harmonics. It sounds still a bit "dry" at wet. Not too "wet" wet...

- The resonance itself sounds more bright, like one harmony peaks out more than the others. So it peaks more, but has less harmonies overall. That makes it sound to me a bit non coherent, somehow artificial. In other words, if you try to hear the resonance as separated sound, itself sounds a not natural, like processed thru a bit/rate reducer. This is not the case so much the case in other synths.

- Even with all distortion / saturation off, the filter at higher resonance sounds somehow saturated

- The filters are very evened out regarding volume dynamics on cutoff changes. I think this flattening should be optional.

If you take a common workstation synth (like Zebra2, VPS Avenger etc.), you can hear what I mean if you set to a raw saw wave plus a 12dB "analog" LP filter. Then set the resonance to maximum (not maximum in MPS), fix the volume so it does not distort, play a A-6 on the keyboard and now slowly moving the cutoff from maximum to middle position.

[mccy]

MTurbofilter !?

I once formulated a similar feeling/impression. I don't use the filters so far, because somehow I like others better, but I would never expect a "the drop" here

[MeldaProduction]

MacGyver, now that's an exhaustive description, I like that! Now, could you post some examples of the approximately same sound made by MPS and some other synth, so I can analyze it? (plus a preset in MPS if possible)

[pone]

I would say in general virtual analogue filters distort and create harmonics of the resonance of the filter, this can be done in the Sub-x 12 linear mode with character set to 0 (so that you have the harmonics near the resonance frequency), but this creates a nasty peak far lower in the spectrum.
Alternatively you can use 2 filters in serial with the first one being set to peak, then have pre-distortion on the second filter actually distort and create those harmonics and the resulting distortion will sounds more "analogue" too.

[MacGyver]

MacGyver, now that's an exhaustive description, I like that! Now, could you post some examples of the approximately same sound made by MPS and some other synth, so I can analyze it? (plus a preset in MPS if possible)

Thank you. Ok I will try, please hold on

[peejay123]

This thread has been really interesting for me. I also struggle to get an analogue sounding filter out of MPS.

The peak filter tip above was great. Does anyone have any more tips like that, especially about combining the two filters?

Despite using the note section in the filters (and often the subX12) waveform, I can't seem to make filters sound good across the octaves. All ideas appreciated!

[pone]

Does anyone have any more tips like that, especially about combining the two filters?

Use the harmonics, comb or another resonant filter to do the same and don't have both at the same frequency.

Despite using the note section in the filters (and often the subX12) waveform, I can't seem to make filters sound good across the octaves. All ideas appreciated!

Don't use it. Something I desperately missed in powersynth is a relationship curve (standard melda xy curve) between key/velocity and resonance and filter freq.
If it would ever be implemented, not to spend too much time with backwards compatibility, I'd guess no automation of the points would be fine. (gain, char. etc. would be cool too )

P.S. There is a "quirk' with filters with gain. If you edit the panorama it clips into the sky with any setting.

[MeldaProduction]

Hmmm, I'm a bit lost about the "relationship curve" - there is "how much the filter parameters should increase/decrease". Sure there could be like a graph for that, but that seems a bit overkill even to me . I'd save that for MYYY, damn, that's going to be quite a project...

As for the "quirk" - I just tried (newest beta though), but found no problems. Could you contact me via email, potentially with the settings?

[pone]

Sure

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It seems like the gain range is extending beyond the maximum permited

[MeldaProduction]

Aaaaha, indeed, it somehow interacts with the gain range Need to check it out!