Repro-5

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david.beholder wrote:I'm waiting for Louis Vuitton and Gucci branded DACs for a long time.
Leather surface, read wood, gold panel and brand - that's what attracts customer.
That's what would allow you to get your claim to fame to completely new level.

Here is a description of an actual test done at Harmon Kardon where sighted vs blind was the specific topic of the test comparison. The results are clear, when testees could see what they were evaluating, they demonstrated a clear preference for the larger more expensive systems. Note, that like our friend here, they were annoyed that anyone thought that they weren't immune, after all, they are audio professionals.

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/04/d ... oduct.html

So, while I'm sure that you're just adding humor, yay! The kinds of biases that audio types are subject to is pretty much as silly as the kinds of biases that Gucci customers are subject to.

Anyone who claims that they aren't biased simply doesn't understand the issues. Even when you understand it, you are still biased. You MUST go out of your way to minimize bias if you are going to make an objective claim about human perception such as what we're discussing here.
Brand biases and employee loyalty to Harman products were also a factor in the sighted tests, since three of the four products (G,D, and S) were Harman branded. Loudspeaker T was a large, expensive ($3.6k) competitor's speaker that had received critical acclaim in the audiophile press for its sound quality. However, not even Harman brand loyalty could overpower listeners' prejudices associated with the relatively small size, low price, and plastic materials of loudspeaker S; in the sighted test, it was less preferred to Loudspeaker T, in contrast to the blind test where it was slightly preferred over loudspeaker T.
In summary, the sighted and blind loudspeaker listening tests in this study produced significantly different sound quality ratings. The psychological biases in the sighted tests were sufficiently strong that listeners were largely unresponsive to real changes in sound quality caused by acoustical interactions between the loudspeaker, its position in the room, and the program material.
Last edited by ghettosynth on Thu May 25, 2017 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AnX wrote:Im waiting for a poly synth, not a pointless preset browser.... seriously.
I'm with you on this. I understand that they have to do what they have to do, but, I don't really care about tag based browsers. They just add a strange subjective workload to preset creation. Is this patch crispy or crackly? Yeah, I don't really know, I'm not sold on tags. I don't use them for my own patches and I don't find them particularly helpful in browsers that rely on them.

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Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Urs wrote:
jbraner wrote:I wonder how Repro-5 is coming along... :wink:
Nicely. I think we're almost done sound-wise. We had Howie in the office for AB testing with a reference hardware and the differences are in the same magnitude as the difference between the reference hardware and another (as far as one can tell by Youtube).

We will however merge our tagged preset browser into the project this week. We'll see how long it takes to get things up and running with it, it's a major surgery on our codebase, probably the biggest we ever had...
Not to distract from the very important converter discussion, but just want to point out that I'm almost as excited by the tagged preset browser as I am by RePro-5 itself. I'd been kind of compiling my own favorites via my DAW's preset system so having something more advanced in the various U-he products will be very appreciated here.

Will RePro-1 get the updated browser at the same time RePro-5 goes beta or into the final release? Or will RePro-1 get updated much later?
Repro-1 and Repro-5 are developed in parallel.

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ghettosynth wrote:
AnX wrote:Im waiting for a poly synth, not a pointless preset browser.... seriously.
I'm with you on this. I understand that they have to do what they have to do, but, I don't really care about tag based browsers. They just add a strange subjective workload to preset creation. Is this patch crispy or crackly? Yeah, I don't really know, I'm not sold on tags. I don't use them for my own patches and I don't find them particularly helpful in browsers that rely on them.
The tags are not the issue in this. We have had a tagging system for a while, which we use in our NKS ready synths (Diva, Repro-1). The main issue is a complete concept that allows for searches in presets, e.g. also text based. And that's probably the most often requested feature over the past ten years.

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Urs wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:
AnX wrote:Im waiting for a poly synth, not a pointless preset browser.... seriously.
I'm with you on this. I understand that they have to do what they have to do, but, I don't really care about tag based browsers. They just add a strange subjective workload to preset creation. Is this patch crispy or crackly? Yeah, I don't really know, I'm not sold on tags. I don't use them for my own patches and I don't find them particularly helpful in browsers that rely on them.
The tags are not the issue in this. We have had a tagging system for a while, which we use in our NKS ready synths (Diva, Repro-1). The main issue is a complete concept that allows for searches in presets, e.g. also text based. And that's probably the most often requested feature over the past ten years.
I wasn't really complaining, even if it sounded that way. If I understand it, there's no real way to use the tags right now, at least without NKS, right? Honestly, I don't even know why I'm asking, I truly don't care. I've just never noticed any mechanism to tag patches even though some seem to have tags in the description. Could be because I'm just not paying attention to those features.

But YAY for responding to your number one feature request :)

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I don't care much about tags either. But I often try to recall where a certain patch was, and I wished I could just type the first few letters and get a list of all presets that match.

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Urs wrote:I don't care much about tags either. But I often try to recall where a certain patch was, and I wished I could just type the first few letters and get a list of all presets that match.
Well, in any case, I meant it legitimately that I understand that developer decisions sometimes have to incorporate the larger picture to maximize efficiency over the long haul. So, I'm looking forward to it whenever it comes out.

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Urs wrote:I don't care much about tags either. But I often try to recall where a certain patch was, and I wished I could just type the first few letters and get a list of all presets that match.
That, and being able to just quick find all my favorites that are pads (for instance) will be huge for me.

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As a long time Maschine user, I absolutely loathe the NI obsession with a tag-based system. Ghettosynth nailed it above when he said: "They just add a strange subjective workload to preset creation." Tags actually mentally stress me out. The browser for NKS stuff feels like a massive, dirty bedroom, and it's your job to figure out how to clean it all up.....No Thanks.

I do give a big +1 to just having searchable text. I use that feature in Ableton Live all the time, another program with a poorly designed browser system, but the search goes a long way to remedying that.

-M

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Urs wrote:I don't care much about tags either. But I often try to recall where a certain patch was, and I wished I could just type the first few letters and get a list of all presets that match.

Well, as someone who likes to start from scratch (delete factory presets, roll my own) its never a problem finding a patch. If i cant remember what i named something, i remake it.

Browsers these days seem more complex than the synth sometimes...

I guess most ppl buy a synth for the presets tho, which seems bizzare to me, but hey ho...

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Our concept is indeed very complex, but mainly also because I wanted to keep things based on a folder structure. So any search is always within the scope of the currently chosen folder and its subdirectories.

Also, in Repro-1 or Diva, if you right-click the save button and "tag this preset", you'll see how painless our implementation is. It's nearly tab free and it's nothing like some implementations we've seen elsewhere, in the sense that the tags we have always stay at the same place. There's nothing dynamic in this - i.e. one does not need to search for tags -, such that tagging becomes a matter of muscle memory. It'll become easier to find with the advent of the tag browser.

(and hey, maybe we find the time to add an init button to our stuff as well)

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I find tags very useful, I don't think search in itself is adequate. For example if I want to search for pads in a plugin that just has text based search it's only going to find patches with pad in the name, but if I have tags I can find every patch tagged as a pad (provided sound designers have tagged them in the first place). As someone who makes a lot of presets it also frees me up to create patchnames that are not constrained by having to have 'pad' or at least 'PD' somewhere in the name and allows for complexities like patches being a little bit of pad, atmo and lead all mixed together and not having to worry about which folder/category they go in.

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Urs wrote:Our concept is indeed very complex, but mainly also because I wanted to keep things based on a folder structure. So any search is always within the scope of the currently chosen folder and its subdirectories.

Also, in Repro-1 or Diva, if you right-click the save button and "tag this preset", you'll see how painless our implementation is. It's nearly tab free and it's nothing like some implementations we've seen elsewhere, in the sense that the tags we have always stay at the same place. There's nothing dynamic in this - i.e. one does not need to search for tags -, such that tagging becomes a matter of muscle memory. It'll become easier to find with the advent of the tag browser.

(and hey, maybe we find the time to add an init button to our stuff as well)
Yeah, im sure its useful to most ppl. I dont just make sounds for the sake of it anymore. I make specific sounds for certain tracks, so they are saved with the project anyway.

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Urs I exchanged a couple of emails with Viktor a few months back regarding support for Ableton's .adg format which Push and Push 2 use for browsing presets. Any chance of .adg being supported with Repro-5's release in addition to NI's .nks file format?

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AnX wrote:
Urs wrote:Our concept is indeed very complex, but mainly also because I wanted to keep things based on a folder structure. So any search is always within the scope of the currently chosen folder and its subdirectories.

Also, in Repro-1 or Diva, if you right-click the save button and "tag this preset", you'll see how painless our implementation is. It's nearly tab free and it's nothing like some implementations we've seen elsewhere, in the sense that the tags we have always stay at the same place. There's nothing dynamic in this - i.e. one does not need to search for tags -, such that tagging becomes a matter of muscle memory. It'll become easier to find with the advent of the tag browser.

(and hey, maybe we find the time to add an init button to our stuff as well)
Yeah, im sure its useful to most ppl. I dont just make sounds for the sake of it anymore. I make specific sounds for certain tracks, so they are saved with the project anyway.
Yep.

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