u-he

mindbeet · Post by **mindbeet** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:17 pm

Hi,
love the Repro-1 but found that the JAWS effect causes phase cancellation.
Some sounds that uses Bias mod in JAWS disappears when listening in mono.
Might be the nature of a Wavefolder, not sure...

Cheers

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:06 pm

Yes, that's a bit within the nature of it - and part of why we added an option to check the monosum with Sonic Conditioner.

The stereo-effect is created by modulating bias in opposite direction, which at some point can lead to phase inverted signals on both sides. In that case it's much like a tremolo effect. We warn about Bias settings and silence in the manual, but we haven't specifically mentioned the possible monosum issue... I'll notify Howie...

mindbeet · Post by **mindbeet** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:13 am

Just like the Juno chorus or DW8000 delay then. Bittersweet nostalgic.
Is this fixable or will it remain as is?
I always mix in mono so I'll catch it but I will most likely stay away from Repro-1 and use something else for those big sounds...

shroom81 · Post by **shroom81** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:57 am

Just mono the sound under a certain frequency and your most likely golden....

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:09 pm

Just don't use the Bias modulation, or use it rather lightly. JAWS is abslutely mono compatible when B-MOD is set in off-position.

mholloway · Post by **mholloway** » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:20 pm

mindbeet wrote:Just like the Juno chorus or DW8000 delay then. Bittersweet nostalgic.
Is this fixable or will it remain as is?
I always mix in mono so I'll catch it but I will most likely stay away from Repro-1 and use something else for those big sounds...

Talk about throwing out the baby with the bathwater! It's just with the JAWS effect, and only on certain settings of the Bias knob. You'd ditch the whole synth because of this?

mindbeet · Post by **mindbeet** » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:42 am

mholloway wrote:
mindbeet wrote:Just like the Juno chorus or DW8000 delay then. Bittersweet nostalgic.
Is this fixable or will it remain as is?
I always mix in mono so I'll catch it but I will most likely stay away from Repro-1 and use something else for those big sounds...
Talk about throwing out the baby with the bathwater! It's just with the JAWS effect, and only on certain settings of the Bias knob. You'd ditch the whole synth because of this?

Of course I won't. It's a great synth and I can use something else to widen up the sound if I need to. What I mean is that some presets sound big but might not be usable as is. I simply pointed out that bias modulation is a great effect that sounds amazing but can't be used. I have heard a lot of similar effects that is mono compatible so I was hoping for an update... don't mean to criticize the whole synth as it's definitely one of the best I've got.

stardustmedia · Post by **stardustmedia** » Tue May 30, 2017 7:01 am

mholloway wrote:
mindbeet wrote:Just like the Juno chorus or DW8000 delay then. Bittersweet nostalgic.
Is this fixable or will it remain as is?
I always mix in mono so I'll catch it but I will most likely stay away from Repro-1 and use something else for those big sounds...
Talk about throwing out the baby with the bathwater! It's just with the JAWS effect, and only on certain settings of the Bias knob. You'd ditch the whole synth because of this?

The problem is the Bias knob creates a great sound, but a very uncool unprofessional phase correlation. The sound is partially cancelled completely out. So that leaves just one solution: Never touch it. From my point of view, this feature could be then just removed completely.

No I won't ditch the whole synth. I'd just like to see that Jaws will get mono compatible.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Tue May 30, 2017 7:56 am

stardustmedia wrote:I'd just like to see that Jaws will get mono compatible.

It's technically impossible. One side is offset (biased) in one direction, the other side is offset in another, similar to many phaser and chorus effects that made history.

The width parameter in the Sonic Conditioner was actually added to check how the monosum is affected.

I decided to leave this effect in because I figured that most people nowadays create music and listen to it in stereo.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Tue May 30, 2017 7:58 am

Yep, screw mono.

stardustmedia · Post by **stardustmedia** » Tue May 30, 2017 8:23 am

Urs wrote:
stardustmedia wrote:I'd just like to see that Jaws will get mono compatible.
It's technically impossible. One side is offset (biased) in one direction, the other side is offset in another, similar to many phaser and chorus effects that made history.

The width parameter in the Sonic Conditioner was actually added to check how the monosum is affected.

I decided to leave this effect in because I figured that most people nowadays create music and listen to it in stereo.

I wonder what phaser/chorus you mean. My analog choruses/phasers are not that much out of phase. A little bit out of phase is ok, but Jaws goes easily up to -1 = sound is cancelled completely out.

I also think most situations are stereo. But mobile phones are not, or those mobile modern "gettho blasters" for the mobile phones, laptops, and I'm not sure if some clubs still have mono'ed PA systems. At least not here in Zurich.

I wished there would be a possibility to tame that. Maybe the MIN setting could be a little less.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Tue May 30, 2017 8:28 am

Changing any of the Jaws settings now would break already existing presets, so it probably won't happen.

stardustmedia · Post by **stardustmedia** » Tue May 30, 2017 8:36 am

EvilDragon wrote:Changing any of the Jaws settings now would break already existing presets, so it probably won't happen.

Then maybe adding a fourth setting for the Bias, something like MONO, as first step before MIN.

Ok, I'll stop moaning... it's not real deal breaker, I just have to be aware of that. Repro-1 is anyway astonishing. Also Jaws sounds awesome.

@Urs: Thanks for your time.

mindbeet · Post by **mindbeet** » Tue May 30, 2017 8:44 am

It's not a matter of choosing to mix in mono. You actually have to if you want to know how your mixes will sound on a dance floor.
But, I guess you all knew that.

stardustmedia · Post by **stardustmedia** » Tue May 30, 2017 8:55 am

mindbeet wrote:It's not a matter of choosing to mix in mono. You actually have to if you want to know how your mixes will sound on a dance floor.
But, I guess you all knew that.

Yup, you're right. It's not about choosing. Mono compatibility is very important.

But, not all dance floors are mono. In fact here in Zurich I know that they have stereo setups, at least the ones I visited = like most of them

Of course I cannot say about other countries.

Besides that, there are also other situations, where the user listens mono. That's why I always check mono compatibility. Some customers say it's not important, because they think everything is nowadays stereo, until I playback on the mobile phone's speaker

u-he

KVR Audio

Repro-1 JAWS not mono compatible