Next Propellerhead Reason upgrade (9.5) to include VST support

[kmonkey]

It very well maybe the interaction between Acustica and Reason that's causing the issue. I haven't tried my most demanding plugs yet, but, I have a project going right now with Diva and ACE and I'm not feeling any stress.
.

Mind you you mentioned instruments i am speaking about FX.

Well i just bothered and tried Bitwig demo and i have around same result.

This means next - i counted 5 major DAW applications. All of them share same score in VST performance (Reaper is around 7% better then everyone else). Most importantly all of them give me same plugin count. Reason don't. I fail to realize how is this Acustica fault? There is something wrong in Reason VST implementation.

Another issue - i just tried jbridged plugins (32bit plugins bridged in 64 bit host). All of them works fine in Cubase and Ableton (i use them on daily basis for years - haven't tried in other DAWs for this particular case)

In Reason they open fine first time then on reopening they miss GUI, i get white blank screen and missing GUI. VAZ Modular for example does not work at all (it works fine in other hosts). It opens then it hangs.

I am not saying it's complete disappointment it is not. I see they put their efforts in making VST plugins behave naturally in Reason like other Reason native plugins which is great but compatibility and performance aspect is missed. Probably in next release or bugfix release.

It scream "i am rushed release". Not matured.

Someone said and claimed here that Reason VST development is at least 10 years in the making because some Reason developer said it. I call this a bold lie made for public acceptance of changing their minds and nothing else.

If they really had VST 10 years in the making then they are worst developers on planet earth.

I'll test instruments later tomorrow.

[ghettosynth]

It very well maybe the interaction between Acustica and Reason that's causing the issue. I haven't tried my most demanding plugs yet, but, I have a project going right now with Diva and ACE and I'm not feeling any stress.
.

Mind you you mentioned instruments i am speaking about FX.

Well i just bothered and tried Bitwig demo and i have around same result.

This means next - i counted 5 major DAW applications. All of them share same score in VST performance (Reaper is around 7% better then everyone else). Most importantly all of them give me same plugin count. Reason don't. I fail to realize how is this Acustica fault? There is something wrong in Reason VST implementation.

I didn't say that it was "Acustica's fault", I said that it could very well be an interaction such that it is behaving more poorly than other plugins with a similar workload. Send a bug report to props about it. I'm not sure how common Acustica is in the wild, they might not have encountered the issue. However, also send a report to Acustica, they might want to look at the issue.

BTW: I didn't mention effects but I have been running effects in Reason, it's just that instruments take more CPU for the most part.

As far as there being something wrong, there's something wrong with every host I own, period! They all have bugs and some of them manifest in weird ways with specific plugins. There's little to no value in pointing fingers. Send bug reports.

For me, plugin support is working fine in Reason and I'm getting ready to add another round of plugins to my special Reason plugin directory. Even Waves stuff is working great now where it was causing issues before.

I don't have anything from Acustica, I've never been able to get their login to download their freebies to work right.

Sorry, not getting on the bitter train with this, I'm really glad props went this route and I fully expect there to be some growing pains.

[Elektronisch]

Ok so i have tried Reason 9.5 myself. I was eager to test it as ive been a huge fan of V3 12 years ago

My first initial thought, everything is so tiny and small. And im on 23 inch full hd monitor only

After working some time i noticed that rack gets messy with alot of devices and later on its a bit hard to recognise where is what. Using the sequencer gave me feeling that there is a bit uneven ratio between icon lanes instrument sizes wich sometimes gives an ache when trying to reach certain icon and you have to lean to the screen.

I really loved 1 thing alot, is how piano roll works with the sequencer, it instantly opens in full screen without really ocupying whole screen and you can still see the instruments and just quickly switch and the transition from turning off and on piano roll is awesome for that matter. WHY OTHER DAW MAKERS DO NOT MAKE THAT???? PROPELLERHEAD should be given a nobel price for that reason (retorical question).

[kmonkey]

Sorry, not getting on the bitter train with this, I'm really glad props went this route and I fully expect there to be some growing pains.

Not asking you to get on bitter train (haha good wording). Yes all host have their problems but this particular one (VST performance) seems to be resolved by all of them in same way - read they all perform same.

Reason does not.

I am just reading this thread backward and i noticed here and on Gearslutz quite a few users reported bad UAD plugin processing. Well UAD is pretty much one of best plugin vendors in the world and their plugins runs smooth everywhere.

I am not saying this 9.5 is bad completely and i won't get on cheering train with you (hehe). Thanks for your reports and for advice. I'll report this to Reason and Acustica developers though i don't expect Acustica to fix anything because it is not pure coincidence that their plugins run ok with 5 major DAW apps i tried while Reason users are reporting problems with various plugins not just Acustica ones.

Cheers

[ghettosynth]

Sorry, not getting on the bitter train with this, I'm really glad props went this route and I fully expect there to be some growing pains.

Not asking you to get on bitter train (haha good wording). Yes all host have their problems but this particular one (VST performance) seems to be resolved by all of them in same way - read they all perform same.

Reason does not.

I am just reading this thread backward and i noticed here and on Gearslutz quite a few users reported bad UAD plugin processing. Well UAD is pretty much one of best plugin vendors in the world and their plugins runs smooth everywhere.

I am not saying this 9.5 is bad completely and i won't get on cheering train with you (hehe). Thanks for your reports and for advice. I'll report this to Reason and Acustica developers though i don't expect Acustica to fix anything because it is not pure coincidence that their plugins run ok with 5 major DAW apps i tried while Reason users are reporting problems with various plugins not just Acustica ones.

Cheers

Sure, it's likely that it's a Reason issue with both Acustica and UAD, however, you'd be surprised how strange interactions can happen. It ought not be surprising that some vendors are going to have issues. Like I said, Waves didn't work AT ALL for me in early betas.

I would suggest to get a fair evaluation that you create a separate plugin directory just for Reason and copy your plugins in slowly to figure out what's working well and what's not. I think that it's probably optimistic to expect Reason work well with everything for some time. Frankly, it already is more reliably than Energy XT or Cubase 5.0 was for me and neither of those were new to VSTs.

[aMUSEd]

It scream "i am rushed release". Not matured.

Someone said and claimed here that Reason VST development is at least 10 years in the making because some Reason developer said it. I call this a bold lie made for public acceptance of changing their minds and nothing else.

If they really had VST 10 years in the making then they are worst developers on planet earth.

I'll test instruments later tomorrow.

I don't agree, they have a lot to do but for a first release this is surprisingly complete, well thought out and 'mature'. I was amazed at how efficiently the beta process worked compared to some betas I've participated in, bugs got identified and fixed quickly and without fuss. The outstanding issues like UAD require special attention, UAD plugins need a different approach to handling audio and while other hosts do manage this fine they have had much longer to work on it (even Reaper - the most optimised host generally - took a while to get this right - they had to create special settings just for UAD), so they need to spend some time focussing on things like that, it may not be a quick fix.

Even if it is true they tested VST support 10 years ago (which seems to have a reliable source) that doesn't mean they have worked on it for 10 years, that does not follow. All it means at most is they explored the idea and developed a feasible method for doing so, possibly even developed a test build, but then decided against it (presumably in favour of RE) so it got shelved for 10 years.

[Bereket]

Man Finally people start talking the truth. The VST in Reason is shitty. Look I loved Reason in the past but not anymore. It loads less number of VST effects than Harrison Mixbus 32C and it crackles like hell. Do you need a Video? I'm more than happy to do that. It doesn't even take me to them point allowing me to capture. It is already keep saying computer is slow. While Mixbus 32C DSP enjoy 50% DSP in fact the plugin count is almost double in Mixbus. in Reason I have Ozone 7 on the master, The glue, bx meter. On send 2 seventh heaven pro and plug and mix pitch me. On tracks these are what I have, one cla 76, three f6 dynamic EQ, three UAD multi band comp, two Plug and mix moog filter , one Plug and mix valve driver, one UAD transient designer, one Seventh heaven pro, one UAD la 2a, one waves de-esser, one UAD 1176, one bx_dynEQ and two pulverizer.
Again this are what I have

1, Ozone 7, The glue, bx meter.
2, Totally three Seventh heaven pro reverb and Plug & Mix pitch me
3, Cla 76, Three F6 dynamic EQ, Three UAD multi band comp, Two Plug and mix moog filters, One plug and mix valve driver, one UAD transient designer, One UAD la2a, One waves de-esser, One UAD 1176, One bx_dynEQ and two pulverizer.

Reason already it has started cracking in between. Im freaking mad.

Whereas In Harrison Mixbus 32c I have like six seventh heaven pro reverb. Ozone 7, The glue man look the picture and the DSP is on 50%.

Reason is VERY VERY VERY BAD. Too bad now reason fans will start telling you to buy new computer.

[kmonkey]

Let me be clear i don't want top cause drama or thread derailing. I am not here to generate users screaming how bad Reason is. On the other side it would be great if other users and dedicated fans stop trying to marginalize issues and say it's a special case or it's other company issue because it is not. Clearly.

And i don't need KVR agreement. As i see on other forums this is case for other people as well and PH developer confirmed issue and they are looking into it.

So far my impression is that VST performance is not mature but overall plugin integration is really in Propellerheads style - great. Other then that program is great and speak volumes when it comes to inspiration and workflow.

We all must accept the truth which is - everyone need time to adjust and adapt. Even Propellerheads. Be happy after all VST in Reason was considered as impossible until few days ago.

I am 100% sure Propellerheads are looking into these VST performance issues. With this VST integration they are being thrown in to fire. Quite a lot of new things to learn and to adapt to for their developers.

Theory about Propellerheads making VST performance crippled intentionally is theory for morons and idiots. Stop spreading nonsense.

Cheers

[kmonkey]

Reason already it has started cracking in between. Im freaking mad.

Reason is VERY VERY VERY BAD. Too bad now reason fans will start telling you to buy new computer.

Yo it's all fine you just need to calm down a bit. Like i said for sure they noticed issues and you can expect some sort of service pack or how they call it whatever. I am sure it'll be addressed.

[Bereket]

Theory about Propellerheads making VST performance crippled intentionally is theory for morons and idiots. Stop spreading nonsense.

Cheers

Fair enough, But help me understand this, they have been working on VST for over 10 years based on the info that I read on this forum and the only thing that they can come up is this?

[kmonkey]

Fair enough, But help me understand this, they have been working on VST for over 10 years based on the info that I read on this forum and the only thing that they can come up is this?

I don't know inner working of PH staff.

As i see it VST performance is a bit bad for VST power users but i need to give them a credit because it is first VST iteration/version. I and even you know how difficult is to handle a lot of stuff especially a lot of stuff immediately. Take in account they are newcomers here.

If you ask me to guess my guess is that: no they did not developed VST for 10 years maybe a year and a half or less. Quite a lot of things happened in VST world and they just need to adapt to it and i am sure they will.

That's all

I know you don't like it but i'll say it : patience my friend

[kmonkey]

Reading Reasontalk forums (seeking for performance problems and solutions) and mentality of their users is fun for sure (respect to individuals)

https://forum.reasontalk.com/viewtopic. ... &t=7501460

https://forum.reasontalk.com/viewtopic. ... &t=7501350

[Anosou]

Theory about Propellerheads making VST performance crippled intentionally is theory for morons and idiots. Stop spreading nonsense.

Cheers

Fair enough, But help me understand this, they have been working on VST for over 10 years based on the info that I read on this forum and the only thing that they can come up is this?

Just to be clear: we've been developing VST support since around when 9.1/9.2 was released. Some of the underlying code was written as a test project way, way back by Magnus Lidström and some of our PH devs. There was still a lot of work to implement and update that code and create what is Reason 9.5, we didn't just have a complete solution lying around.

[kmonkey]

Anosou cool.

While you are here you can add these plugins/companies to check list. Acuctica Audio, UAD and TC Electronic.

I just realized TC Electronic VSS3 (native, x64 win version) does not work correctly. I add it to session, tweak parameter save session. I reload session and Parameter called DRY is always set to zero (Reason does not remember it correctly). Works fine in other applications (tested in Reaper, Ableton and Cubase).
edit: it act up randomly. Sometimes in some session it's recalled correctly in some it's not (yes i double checked and there is no automation curve for mentioned parameter-it's not mapped anywhere)

Cheers

You need to add me to your beta since i have more then 60 plugins (which is actually a shame)

[Anosou]

Anosou cool.

While you are here you can add these plugins/companies to check list. Acuctica Audio, UAD and TC Electronic.

I just realized TC Electronic VSS3 (native, x64 win version) does not work correctly. I add it to session, tweak parameter save session. I reload session and Parameter called DRY is always set to zero (Reason does not remember it correctly). Works fine in other applications (tested in Reaper, Ableton and Cubase).
edit: it act up randomly. Sometimes in some session it's recalled correctly in some it's not (yes i double checked and there is no automation curve for mentioned parameter-it's not mapped anywhere)

Cheers

You need to add me to your beta since i have more then 60 plugins (which is actually a shame)

Thanks for the feedback! If you have specific bugs, please send 'em over to bugs@propellerheads.se and they end up in our test queue.