Next Propellerhead Reason upgrade (9.5) to include VST support

[elektrofux]

Theory about Propellerheads making VST performance crippled intentionally is theory for morons and idiots. Stop spreading nonsense.

Cheers

Fair enough, But help me understand this, they have been working on VST for over 10 years based on the info that I read on this forum and the only thing that they can come up is this?

I think you misunderstood something about the 10 years ago thing. As i understood it back then, they had a VST container 10 years ago but the y didnt work on it for 10 years.

[kmonkey]

Thanks for the feedback! If you have specific bugs, please send 'em over to bugs@propellerheads.se and they end up in our test queue.

Will do thanks for email.

[fgimian]

Decided to try out 9.5 today, this is indeed a trip down memory lane as I own Reason 4 which is the last version of Reason I used.

So far, I really like it. Almost all my VST instruments and effects are working well. Ironically, one of the main synths I had dramas with was Serum, but I have also experienced issues with Serum in Cubase (random craziness), that synth is pretty buggy.

But the rest have been great. I also noticed that certain plugins are rather laggy in their UI (e.g. DMGAudio EQuilibrium in particular).

I guess the most difficult thing for me coming from Cubase is that Reason is a bit lacking in some areas:

* I can't find an easy way to crossfade audio clips
* I don't use a QWERTY keyboard (I use DVORAK) and therefore their mapping of tools to QWERTY doesn't suit me, not sure if I can remap these
* The mixer is just as unfriendly as I remember
* There's no way to bypass a VST effect from its window
* I can't find a way to set a default preset for a VST plugin
* The overall layout of Reason is pretty messy tbh, mute button on track doesn't correspond to mute on the mixer, so many things in Reason are super tiny (I've been zooming like crazy on my Mac to see stuff), the rack itself although powerful is also really very messy to navigate, the cables, same thing, they're useful and fun, but man, things get messy fast back there, the constant back and forth from the mixer (there's no inspector equivalent here) gets old fast too

I love the crazy possibilities though and I always have. This is a far more creative playground than Cubase when it comes to sound design and manipulation of instruments.

I'll definitely be giving the trial a reasonable run

[EnochLight]

Theory about Propellerheads making VST performance crippled intentionally is theory for morons and idiots. Stop spreading nonsense.

Cheers

Fair enough, But help me understand this, they have been working on VST for over 10 years based on the info that I read on this forum and the only thing that they can come up is this?

I think you misunderstood something about the 10 years ago thing. As i understood it back then, they had a VST container 10 years ago but the y didnt work on it for 10 years.

Mattias clarified several posts back:

viewtopic.php?p=6796782#p6796782

[AlesisVi61]

Man Finally people start talking the truth. The VST in Reason is shitty. Look I loved Reason in the past but not anymore. It loads less number of VST effects than Harrison Mixbus 32C and it crackles like hell. Do you need a Video? I'm more than happy to do that. It doesn't even take me to them point allowing me to capture. It is already keep saying computer is slow. While Mixbus 32C DSP enjoy 50% DSP in fact the plugin count is almost double in Mixbus. in Reason I have Ozone 7 on the master, The glue, bx meter. On send 2 seventh heaven pro and plug and mix pitch me. On tracks these are what I have, one cla 76, three f6 dynamic EQ, three UAD multi band comp, two Plug and mix moog filter , one Plug and mix valve driver, one UAD transient designer, one Seventh heaven pro, one UAD la 2a, one waves de-esser, one UAD 1176, one bx_dynEQ and two pulverizer.
Again this are what I have

Reason already it has started cracking in between. Im freaking mad.

Reason is VERY VERY VERY BAD. Too bad now reason fans will start telling you to buy new computer.

Even before 9.5 came out,I was concerned with what VST support in Reason,would do to my CPU(because as it was and is,every time I opened an instance of Reason...my audio/video playback outside of Reason,is disabled.)
I understand your plight,as I myself,can run video and several VST's in my Mixcraft 8,with no problems...so I was very emotional over that....but then,Reason and Mixcraft are completely 2 different worlds,in the DAW realm.
I have a dual core processor with 16GB of RAM and I had thought that was enough power...but evidently not.
I realize now,I have to limit my songs in Reason,to about 10 tracks or less,until such time as I can upgrade to a monster PC,which I am more than willing to do at this point and perhaps,you should do the same....but since I don't know what type of equipment you are running,I can't determine whether or not,your complaint is reasonable....or you are just pissing fire for the sake of venting out some pent up frustration,because you don't like the idea of having to upgrade your existing PC,or having to upgrade to a whole other computer.
I have had Reason since version 4 and a staggering amount of changes have taken place since then and I think the RE's,have a lot to do with the heavy strain on CPU's.
Personally,I think the inclusion of VST support in Reason,is just reason for expanding your studio to accommodate the growth and power demands of 9.5.
I don't know how long you've been making music,but as for myself...I've been a keyboardist for 30 years and 20 years ago,upgrading to a new hardware workstation,meant spending several thousands of dollars...so that said,I don't sweat the petty stuff(such as having to finance a $1,000 PC to solve all of my problems in the studio.)

[memyselfandus]

Theory about Propellerheads making VST performance crippled intentionally is theory for morons and idiots. Stop spreading nonsense.

Cheers

Fair enough, But help me understand this, they have been working on VST for over 10 years based on the info that I read on this forum and the only thing that they can come up is this?

Just to be clear: we've been developing VST support since around when 9.1/9.2 was released. Some of the underlying code was written as a test project way, way back by Magnus Lidström and some of our PH devs. There was still a lot of work to implement and update that code and create what is Reason 9.5, we didn't just have a complete solution lying around.

Any word on being able (option) to import midi to a selected track and drag n drop midi from vst to selected track? Without creating a ID8? A preference perhaps? So you wouldn't have to select between the two options every time?

[keel]

Theory about Propellerheads making VST performance crippled intentionally is theory for morons and idiots. Stop spreading nonsense.

Cheers

Fair enough, But help me understand this, they have been working on VST for over 10 years based on the info that I read on this forum and the only thing that they can come up is this?

Just to be clear: we've been developing VST support since around when 9.1/9.2 was released. Some of the underlying code was written as a test project way, way back by Magnus Lidström and some of our PH devs. There was still a lot of work to implement and update that code and create what is Reason 9.5, we didn't just have a complete solution lying around.

Any word on being able (option) to import midi to a selected track and drag n drop midi from vst to selected track? Without creating a ID8? A preference perhaps? So you wouldn't have to select between the two options every time?

Any word on getting option to that playing cursor automatically return? And midi chase that long notes will play middle, and bypass button to VST gui itself

[Bereket]

Man Finally people start talking the truth. The VST in Reason is shitty. Look I loved Reason in the past but not anymore. It loads less number of VST effects than Harrison Mixbus 32C and it crackles like hell. Do you need a Video? I'm more than happy to do that. It doesn't even take me to them point allowing me to capture. It is already keep saying computer is slow. While Mixbus 32C DSP enjoy 50% DSP in fact the plugin count is almost double in Mixbus. in Reason I have Ozone 7 on the master, The glue, bx meter. On send 2 seventh heaven pro and plug and mix pitch me. On tracks these are what I have, one cla 76, three f6 dynamic EQ, three UAD multi band comp, two Plug and mix moog filter , one Plug and mix valve driver, one UAD transient designer, one Seventh heaven pro, one UAD la 2a, one waves de-esser, one UAD 1176, one bx_dynEQ and two pulverizer.
Again this are what I have

Reason already it has started cracking in between. Im freaking mad.

Reason is VERY VERY VERY BAD. Too bad now reason fans will start telling you to buy new computer.

Even before 9.5 came out,I was concerned with what VST support in Reason,would do to my CPU(because as it was and is,every time I opened an instance of Reason...my audio/video playback outside of Reason,is disabled.)
I understand your plight,as I myself,can run video and several VST's in my Mixcraft 8,with no problems...so I was very emotional over that....but then,Reason and Mixcraft are completely 2 different worlds,in the DAW realm.
I have a dual core processor with 16GB of RAM and I had thought that was enough power...but evidently not.
I realize now,I have to limit my songs in Reason,to about 10 tracks or less,until such time as I can upgrade to a monster PC,which I am more than willing to do at this point and perhaps,you should do the same....but since I don't know what type of equipment you are running,I can't determine whether or not,your complaint is reasonable....or you are just pissing fire for the sake of venting out some pent up frustration,because you don't like the idea of having to upgrade your existing PC,or having to upgrade to a whole other computer.
I have had Reason since version 4 and a staggering amount of changes have taken place since then and I think the RE's,have a lot to do with the heavy strain on CPU's.
Personally,I think the inclusion of VST support in Reason,is just reason for expanding your studio to accommodate the growth and power demands of 9.5.
I don't know how long you've been making music,but as for myself...I've been a keyboardist for 30 years and 20 years ago,upgrading to a new hardware workstation,meant spending several thousands of dollars...so that said,I don't sweat the petty stuff(such as having to finance a $1,000 PC to solve all of my problems in the studio.)

When I started using DAWs around 2000 something like that I got my self Cubase I think the name was different I can't remember and to my surprise cubase started asking me upgrading windows 98 too much headache. However, Reason my goodness Reason didn't even flinch. It runs like a rocket on 128MB Ram with 800 MHz Asus. Now my late 2012 mac mini i7 2.3 quad with 500GB SSD and 16gb Ram supported by UAD DSP is not good enough for Reason. Where is the Reason that I know of in 2000 something? Reason users keep tolerating by just keep upgrading their Rig telling people to upgrade every time a new version pop up. I can't. Other DAWs don't even reach 20% when Reason crackling started. Why do I suffer for liking the product? I guess it is true sometimes you won't forget your first love. I need the old Reason that makes me smile everyday and never task my CPU. Don't bother I will not post again this is my last one.

[ShawnG]

You still have that reason. Just dont use re's or vst's and the built in devices are still just as good and light on cpu as they ever were. I know you spent good money on it, and it sucks, but a mac mini is just not that great of a computer. Not to excuse vst performance in reason, which certainly could improve, but the i7's in minis are the mobile variety that are hamstrung in order to keep the little sandwich box that its housed in from overheating. For email, word processing and web browsing, a mini is fine, for heavy work, not so much.

[qvprod]

Reading Reasontalk forums (seeking for performance problems and solutions) and mentality of their users is fun for sure (respect to individuals)

https://forum.reasontalk.com/viewtopic. ... &t=7501460

https://forum.reasontalk.com/viewtopic. ... &t=7501350

I never post here, but have to say I literally lol'd at the first link. I mod there though, there's always something entertaining.

To be fair, what I've noticed is a fair portion of Reason users and probably many of our forum members, being that we inherited a fair portion of the PUF members, barely knew what VSTs were when 9.5 was announced. It's a bit of a kid in a candy store phase right now, but it'll become normal within time.

[ghettosynth]

* The mixer is just as unfriendly as I remember

Are you talking about the SSL clone? I mean, I'm not a fan of that level of skeuomorphism, I prefer Cubase/Reaper for mixing, but, there's no way that the SSL is as unfriendly as the 16:2 mixer that was the main mixer in version 4.

[chk071]

VST's now available in the PH shop: https://shop.propellerheads.se/browse/? ... &view=grid

P.S.: Welcome, qvprod.

[ghettosynth]

Where is the Reason that I know of in 2000 something?

It's right where you left it in versions <= 4.x. It still works fine on old computers and it still sounds crappy like it did back then.

I'm not sure why people are surprised that when you start adding complex features to a DAW that the cpu consumption goes up. 4.x and down were simple midi sequencers with some built in synths that were, and still are, fairly light on CPU. I started with Reason at version 5 and that version still runs fine on just about anything that I have here.

If you want simplicity and low CPU usage, you can still use the old versions of Reason. Or, you can use a DAW that doesn't have so much overhead, e.g., Reaper.

[Sailor16]

VST's now available in the PH shop: https://shop.propellerheads.se/browse/? ... &view=grid

Wow, that's great!

I'm having so much fun with Reason 9.5 building combinators out of native devices, rack extensions and my huge VST collection... it's almost ridiculous. What a truly great business decision to add VSTs, now even those of my friends who used to bash Reason are giving it a nod.

The only negative thing is that you can't run VST's when Reason is run in ReWire mode. I really hope they'll allow for that in a future version.

[chk071]

That makes 2 of my assumptions invalid. Reason not getting VST support, and the PH shop not offering VST's. Although the collection of plugins they offer is pretty small so far.