Zebra3 Info

[Urs]

We have not yet made any plans on how to handle the introduction of Zebra3. It will most likely boil down to the pricing in the first post of this thread, without much of an extra introduction offer. There might be a public beta phase with current pricing, don't know.

Our plan is to keep Zebra 2 alive after the transition, and make it kind of a gateway drug to u-he synths, much like Synapse Audio kept Dune alive. Hence while Z2 +TDZ and Z2 + Upgrade give you both Z2 and Z3, but getting Zebra 3 alone after the release will not include Zebra 2 (which will be called "Zebra 2 Legacy" or so). We have not decided on a crossgrade path (up & down) or bundle price for *after* the transition.

When time comes we'll try to be as transparent on our pricing and schedule as we possibly can, as early as we can.

[lentferj]

When time comes we'll try to be as transparent on our pricing and schedule as we possibly can, as early as we can.

As usual, no doubt about that here.

[Perimeter Sound]

I figure a potential buyer would rather want to buy in the DSP experience, than the pure name.

Buying the U-he synth/fx rights without Urs (and the team) would be like killing the goose to get a 3rd quarter profits worth of gold eggs. I haven't kept up with Camel Audio, but how is that development going since they got bought out ?

[spunkmuffin]

But from their point of view it doesn't matter if they kill the goose, as long as it prevents any of the others from getting the eggs.

[Urs]

I haven't kept up with Camel Audio, but how is that development going since they got bought out ?

I asked a friend who works in their vicinity at Apple and he assured me they're fine.

[McLilith]

Buying the U-he synth/fx rights without Urs (and the team) would be like killing the goose to get a 3rd quarter profits worth of gold eggs. I haven't kept up with Camel Audio, but how is that development going since they got bought out ?

I don't know about the Mac side of their plugin development, but I can tell you that the Windows development definitely came to a screeching halt.

[babel2]

Woah...this thread suddenly took a strange turn. Maybe we can just pretend no one mentioned corporate buyouts and proceed as normal
... nothing to see here ... as you were ....
Back to dreaming of Zebras with oscillators as modulators ... mind blowing sounds that will fuel genres never before dreamt of. You know, what we've come to know and love about Uhe

[mrj1nx]

I recently watched an interview with Steve Duda and got on the Serum bandwagon (super inspiring interview highly recomend it, a long 3 part interview on youtube about his history leading up to serum). I was very pleasantly surprised by the visual nature of Serum, and the ease of use with the whole drag n drop workflow. Also the mseg editing is so easy, same in LFO tool. I definitely feel like there are a few lessons to be learned from that school of thought. I do feel like u-he is 90% there already and from the looks of it you guys seem to be focusing on those aspects so thats awesome. Thats where I feel Diva may be lacking a little bit, a more capable modmatrix would be really interesting. Right now Im mostly diving into Bazille and still havent wrapped my brain around the insane capabilities

[pdxindy]

I recently watched an interview with Steve Duda and got on the Serum bandwagon (super inspiring interview highly recomend it, a long 3 part interview on youtube about his history leading up to serum). I was very pleasantly surprised by the visual nature of Serum, and the ease of use with the whole drag n drop workflow. Also the mseg editing is so easy, same in LFO tool. I definitely feel like there are a few lessons to be learned from that school of thought. I do feel like u-he is 90% there already and from the looks of it you guys seem to be focusing on those aspects so thats awesome. Thats where I feel Diva may be lacking a little bit, a more capable modmatrix would be really interesting. Right now Im mostly diving into Bazille and still havent wrapped my brain around the insane capabilities

You gotta look at it cause it is so popular... but personally, I do not particularly like the Serum GUI. It is a simple 2 OSC + 1 Filter synth and there is so much tabbing. Maybe for beginners the visual stuff is useful, but I mostly consider it a waste of space and would rather have more modules visible at once.

I love drag-n-drop modulation, but the flaw with the Serum implementation is exactly because of the tabbing. You have to select the tab you want first before you can drag say LFO3 to it... and you cannot drag LFO3 to modulate another LFO cause that LFO has to be selected to reach it.

[Terrafractyl]

yeah I agree with that about the tabs in Serum.
but....there is a lot to like in that GUI also. The simplicity of the architecture has nothing to do with its brilliance.
As mentioned the MSEG's are waay more user friendly than the ones in Zebra(IMO of course). Which to me was very noticeable because I have been using the MSEG's in Zebra ever since Z2 came out, but I still find them a bit clunky. Serums just worked 'the first time I used it, without me scratching my head and thinking 'how to do that?'
Also the visual representation of nearly everything including envelopes is something that once you get used to it, you just want it everywhere.

So.... is there any news yet on that Zebra 2.8 update??? I thought we were going to be there months ago! (not impatient, just excited)

[Urs]

When I wrote the editor for Zebra's MSEGs, all that was there to look at was a concept I didn't like (Absynth, Tera) and those tiny fiddly things in Logic's Sculpture. There were constraints in screen estate, naturally. No need to remind me that technology has moved on, as has acceptance of the MSEG concept.

The simplicity of the architecture has nothing to do with its brilliance.

I disagree. Its simplicity has everything to do with it. That, and the great examples that were set before it. It's a clever almagamation of a few popular concepts post-Massive, just like Sylenth1 is the most clever amalgamation of a classic subtractive synth. They are reductions to an essence and genius in their own way, but they are also absolutely risk free.

When I design a synth, I ask myself, "how far can I go?" - I don't care for risk free. Which I guess is why I need dialog.

[pdxindy]

yeah I agree with that about the tabs in Serum.
but....there is a lot to like in that GUI also. The simplicity of the architecture has nothing to do with its brilliance.
As mentioned the MSEG's are waay more user friendly than the ones in Zebra(IMO of course). Which to me was very noticeable because I have been using the MSEG's in Zebra ever since Z2 came out, but I still find them a bit clunky. Serums just worked 'the first time I used it, without me scratching my head and thinking 'how to do that?'
Also the visual representation of nearly everything including envelopes is something that once you get used to it, you just want it everywhere.

The visualization of env's and osc's is of no use to me... I know what it's doing without seeing it. The visualization just takes up space that could be used for stuff I want to see (less tabs).

Obviously you need a graphical view for MSEG's. And I agree, the MSEG's in Serum are easier to use than Zebra. I do love that the Zebra MSEG's have attack, loop and release phases. Very powerful!

Another thing I find clunky about the Serum GUI is that there is no modulation built in. I add velocity and keyscaling to plenty of parameters. It all has to be done via mod matrix in Serum. Plus the 16 mod slots limit is too small because of that. And even with the small number of slots, the mod matrix still requires scrolling.

There is no option for velocity control on envelopes. The filter only has a 100% or 0% keyscaling switch so any other % of keyscaling is a mod slot. Etc.

I do quite like that a modulator has a number showing how many assignments and that the assignments become visible when that modulator is selected. But you again have to always be clicking on tabs to see what they are. Serum is tab, tab, tab, tab ,tab, tab, etc. Serum is far from my favorite GUI.

One other thing that is a downer for me... and not really a GUI thing, but Serum does not have expression pedal as a modulation source.

[Urs]

The visualization of env's and osc's is of no use to me... I know what it's doing without seeing it. The visualization just takes up space that could be used for stuff I want to see (less tabs).

I agree. (Not speaking about Serum in particular, but the trend in general) It's a concept that's based on the underestimation of the human mind. It does help to understand the concept though, and it sells. But then, after some time, it gets in the way.

With Serum in particular, I get people talking to me and asking when we do something with a similar feature set. Which is funny, because I've done that many, many years ago (less .wav import). The visual representation seems to highten the "status" (for lack of better word) of the implemented feature set, as if it was somehow "more" than the same thing when represented with a tad more understatement. I get it though. It looks pretty

[Cyoon]

Would be nice to have such visuals floatable. Like a modul in diva for exchange with something else. Would make both user groups happy. Sometimes its nice to have, some times not.

[spunkmuffin]

The visualization of env's and osc's is of no use to me... I know what it's doing without seeing it. The visualization just takes up space that could be used for stuff I want to see (less tabs).

I agree. (Not speaking about Serum in particular, but the trend in general) It's a concept that's based on the underestimation of the human mind. It does help to understand the concept though, and it sells. But then, after some time, it gets in the way.

With Serum in particular, I get people talking to me and asking when we do something with a similar feature set. Which is funny, because I've done that many, many years ago (less .wav import). The visual representation seems to highten the "status" (for lack of better word) of the implemented feature set, as if it was somehow "more" than the same thing when represented with a tad more understatement. I get it though. It looks pretty

Hmm well for Zebra 3 maybe the way to go is to include the visualisation but make it optional - just integrate it in an elegant way. That way you get the popularity of the visualisation for people who like that and the power of non-visualisation for the enlightened people.

But I guess you're doing this. The problem becomes how to integrate visuals in a beautiful way that does not get in the way.

Maybe worthwhile for Hive too because it wants to be more popular.

Popular or powerful...flashy or deep...which do you want to be? It's a conundrum. But maybe you can be both...but then maybe not...