DIVA: please expose all parameters to VST hosts

[mi-os]

Currently there is only a limited set of parameters exposed to the host for automation. Which might makes sense for automation but not for MIDI remote controlling the enitre plugin using the host as a mediator.

Maybe an 'expose all params' option on the settings page would do it!?

[mi-os]

@u-he
What do you think?

By the way: I tested DIVA with Generic Remote in Cubase and got some strange button behavior. I mapped a button to FX on/off and had to press the button 3 times before it synced with the plugin. Afterwards it worked as expected until the next preset change. Any ideas why this happens?

[Urs]

If clicks are rapid, they might be interpreted as double clicks.

As for what we think... I think (i.e. know) that hardware controllers have more limited real estate than graphical user interfaces. In a GUI driven environment one can simply do more (and more detail), at the expense if immediacy. Trying to build a tactile interface to bring this immediacy back means that new compromises have to be made (paged and changing layouts), which create the opposite of what was supposed to be solved. That is, instead of using a mediating input device (mouse...) one has to strain brain and muscles to flip through pages. That is, these things tend to become not-so-immediate at all.

Example: When we did NKS for Diva, we had the opportunity to map *all* parameters to those 8 knobs on the Kontrol/Maschine. This would have meant something like 30+ pages. No-one would have been helped by this, it would have been a nightmare to use. So we contained it to "parameters that actually do something", and that was really good.

I think it's wrong to think "everything would be better if I had a knob for every parameter". It's just not true in general. It's only true for virtual devices which do not take advantage of the possibilities offered by graphical user interfaces ("more" and "more detail").

While it's debatable for certain parameters as to what sense they make as automation/control targets, I still think that exposing all parameters only leads to clutter, but not to better control surfaces or more sophicticated productions with extra lanes of automation.

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That said, some parameters are outright dangerous to automate, e.g. when a swept curve leads to thousands of restructuring calculations per second. Automating these parameters (e.g. Module/Algorithm changes) can lead to perceived bugs. Leaving these out is sheer self defense

[mi-os]

Thank you Urs.

I tested various click speeds, it doesn't matter.

My controller is layed out like a more recent 'real' synth and therefore has submenus for less important parameters.

I only decided using the VST interface because of the possible two-way communication. I admit i may have a different usecase vs automating some meaningful parameters via the host. Thus i proposed a new mode for such usecases.

[mi-os]

I'd be grateful if someone could examine the above mentioned button issue on their system with Cubase. I tested Halion One and there it does work correctly. Thank you!

[mi-os]

Please extend the MIDI implementation and look at the button issue i encountered (second post).

ps I want to build/finish my DIVA controller.

[#rob]

The FX on/off in Diva is absolute and will respond to CC values 0 or 127. If the FX is on (=127) but your controller has value 0, you then press your controller which switches to value 127 and sends "go to 127" to Diva, then (in that specific case) it would be pretty obvious why nothing happens.

Nobody here knows what your controller does, what messages your controller sends, what encoder type your button reports to the plugin, or anything else about it. Unless you become more specific about what messages you send and what you think they should do, I'm afraid we won't be able to help you much with it. I think it would help a lot if you could post more details about the encoder you're using and what data it sends, e.g. a MIDI log or something.

[mi-os]

Thanks Rob,

I set up Cubase generic remote with MIDI transmit/receive, so the controller received the current state of the button and sent the correct inversion of that state. When i toggled a button in DIVA the hw controller button LED changed accordingly. I tried the same with a button in Halion One and there it did work as expected. The controller hardware is MIDIBox.

[#rob]

In Cubase, there should be a MIDI Monitor plugin. Please use that to record what your controller sends to Diva, and let me know what information it sends to the knob, and also what does or doesn't happen accordingly.