u-he

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:39 pm

KBSoundSmith wrote: Most people making EDM and things along those lines aren't "musicians" per se. They don't play instruments or know music theory. They don't know how to use a piano or keyboard instruments -- they probably don't own a MIDI controller. They know nothing of the MIDI protocol. All of their notes and sounds are entered into their DAW via mouse, after self-teaching on most matters. This is a substantial portion of the market.

Well, I'm making EDM (sort of ... I think from a traditional musician's viewpoint psytrance is a kind of EDM). I've played guitar and keyborads for few years and in my tracks (where I prorgram most sounds from init) i'm using velocity assigments in about 50% of the sounds, and AT in quite a few. What I'm doing wrong?

KBSoundSmith · Post by **KBSoundSmith** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:49 pm

chk071 wrote:Yet you claimed that "most people making EDM" aren't musicians, don't play instruments, or know music theory, probably don't own a MIDI controller, know nothing of the MIDI protocol, and enter all of tgheir notes into the DAW per mouse, after having self-taught themselves on most matter. But, i see, that is no judging if that is good or bad at all. I wonder how you know all these things though, if you're obviously so reluctant to the music, and people making it. I suggest you watch some of the producer videos, and teach yourself how much more most of those guys know about producing than many people around here.

In the traditional sense, they aren't musicians. Pretty sure they don't know how to write a four-voice fugue. (And I'm not saying they "should" know those things either...). But I didn't say they weren't musicians at all...they are musicians in a different paradigm.

And what I said ISN'T a judgment -- it's an OBSERVATION. That is often times what they do (because yes, I've watched those videos and have observed their actual behavior and techniques). I made a caricature to clearly delineate between paradigms -- that's all. If you feel "judged" then I suggest you either learn the difference between judgment and observation, or change the behavior that's making you feel inadequate when someone highlights it.

Notice I never said anything about my own musical preferences either. If you must know, I've recently been learning to make EDM and seeing how people make the various styles -- I'm of the persuasion to take interest in what other people do, rather than dismiss it because it isn't what I grew up doing.

pitchdrifter · Post by **pitchdrifter** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:51 pm

chk071 wrote:It's amazing how widespread these kind of prejudices are here. And how is it a bad thing, or "unmusical" to enter your notes in your DAW? I thought that is what a DAW is there for. Maybe get down from your high horse, really.

It's not 'bad' when you pencil in notes, for some genres it works.

It isn't surprising when some folk suggest that standard synthesis concepts and component terms are 'confusing'. What's odd however is when they recommend they should be changed / hidden etc.

Not every tool is intended to be used by novices to the craft - it CAN be, but then the user needs to learn to use it (instead of complaining that it's not self explanatory).
Someone who wants to get what he wants out of a modular synth needs to understand the basics of synthesis or buy presets that suit their needs. Mind you other people buy presets too - they are good examples from which to learn programming.

bmrzycki · Post by **bmrzycki** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:54 pm

So, back to Z3. I'm excited to hear the new detune laws, new Reverb, merging of MSEG and Wavetable editor, something inspired by the Repro-* work, and who knows what other crazy ideas the u-he guys have cooked up.

Zebra should play to its strengths and if people prefer other other tools, that's fine by me.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:54 pm

KBSoundSmith wrote: Notice I never said anything about my own musical preferences either. If you must know, I've recently been learning to make EDM and seeing how people make the various styles -- I'm of the persuasion to take interest in what other people do, rather than dismiss it because it isn't what I grew up doing.

Good good. Hope you don't dismiss the people doing it as "non-musicians" anymore then (and deny them any musical knowledge, or skill), just because they don't play an instrument in a traditional way.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:03 pm

mu·si·cian
myo͞oˈziSHən/
noun
noun: musician; plural noun: musicians

a person who plays a musical instrument, especially as a profession, or is musically talented.
"your father was a fine musician"
synonyms: player, performer, instrumentalist, accompanist, soloist, virtuoso, maestro; historicalminstrel
"the club is looking for musicians"

off topic of course.
rsp

Elektronisch · Post by **Elektronisch** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:14 pm

these days DAW can be considered as is an instrument

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:22 pm

Elektronisch wrote:these days DAW can be considered as is an instrument

Lol
no it isn't.

rsp

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:23 pm

Elektronisch wrote:these days DAW can be considered as is an instrument

Precisely. Brian Eno used the recording studio as an instrument. That studio has become virtual. I think in any time, the results should be judged, not the method.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:29 pm

And hopefully I will remain a musical snob.

Brian Eno also plays guitar and I am sure other instruments. (Instruments
:Synthesiser piano keyboards vocals organ saxophone guitar bass guitar )

I think what he did that you are referring to is still called Sound Design.
rsp

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:32 pm

zvenx wrote:
Elektronisch wrote:these days DAW can be considered as is an instrument
Lol
no it isn't.

rsp

Such a narrow view. So, if someone buys a DAW and creates a beautiful piece of music with it... what?

I'm a "traditional" musician, but I had a job where I had to creat music for a video game. The employer had no gear or studio, so I installed my DAW and got to work. The results are indistinguishable from what I'd have done at home with a keyboard... except maybe a bit better, as I'm a guitar player.

So, by your definition, I created music without an instrument. Am I a sorcerer?

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:41 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
zvenx wrote:
Elektronisch wrote:these days DAW can be considered as is an instrument
Lol
no it isn't.

rsp
Such a narrow view. So, if someone buys a DAW and creates a beautiful piece of music with it... what?

I'm a "traditional" musician, but I had a job where I had to creat music for a video game. The employer had no gear or studio, so I installed my DAW and got to work. The results are indistinguishable from what I'd have done at home with a keyboard... except maybe a bit better, as I'm a guitar player. So, by your definition, I created music without an instrument. Am I a sorcerer?

What were your sound sources?
how did you trigger them?
Is a musical editor a musican?
Is a dj?
I am guessing you will say yes..
Anyway we are way off topic

rsp

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:18 pm

I also play drums. Does THAT make me a musician now? Please, please, pretty please...

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:21 pm

chk071 wrote:I also play drums. Does THAT make me a musician now? Please, please, pretty please...

lol

I think kvr needs private chat rooms. I am actually very interested in the discussion, once we remain civilized about it and willing to agree to disagree if necessary
....alas I think we have hijacked Zebra3's thread for much too long... unless of course urs is enjoying the distraction so we don't continuously harass him with.....'are we there yet?"

.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:58 pm

Fair enough. I was just nagging a bit for the nagging's sake.

Back to Zebra of course.

u-he

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