Artists are getting lazy! What happened to Entrepreneurship!

[zerocrossing]

Capitalism mostly sucks.

The reason I make music is music.

^This.

I spent decades pushing that rock up a hill, only to find that the only thing I liked about the music business was the music. I think that's more easily experienced by people now. More people communicate what life on the road is like. It's horrible, imo. I wish I'd have known. Now I work as a designer/writer/illustrator. I can stop work at 3 pm to spend the rest of the day with my daughter. Living life, instead of an endless series of getting to the next gig. When I make music, it's pure in a way it rarely was when I did it for money.

[cron]

Blame the resurgence of vinyl and the fact that kids just have less money than they used to pre-financial-crisis.

Even 5 years ago we were looking at (IIRC) a 3 or 4-month lead time on average for getting your first test pressing. It felt frustratingly difficult back then, and it'll have only got worse as more and more major labels buy up plant time in advance for a format they'd completely abandoned as recently as 10 years ago. We're now at a stage where barely any independent vinyl at all comes out between January and March because of majors hogging the plants for Record Store Day in April. It's just not like it used to be when you could quickly bang out a record inexpensively with relatively little wait or fuss. Breaking even and getting back the money we'd poured in from our day jobs so we'd have the cash to do the next one was the best we could hope for on a 500ish run (although we were hardly full-on businessmen to be fair - love not money). Cassette labels are thriving but that's not really a choice if you're making/releasing club oriented music.

[Chemik]

I read this as, people don't want to work hard to get to the top, they want it now.

Cut EDM producer out of it and replace it with "Millennial" and apply to any situation anywhere.

I speak in general terms of course.

[damoog]

I think to many sub genres of EDM(dance music to anybody over 40) is partially to blame as to why nobody is really a staple,or even influential anymore

Easy access to hugely affordable computers and software is another reason so much crap is churned out all the time..ironically(much like 'the terminator') the computer has indeed taken over with easy production skills now everywhere for anybody to get their hands on which is why nobody really does anything DIFFERENT anymore...there isn't really any modern Liam Howletts anymore

[aMUSEd]

Easy access to hugely affordable computers and software is another reason so much crap is churned out all the time..ironically(much like 'the terminator') the computer has indeed taken over with easy production skills now everywhere for anybody to get their hands on which is why nobody really does anything DIFFERENT anymore...there isn't really any modern Liam Howletts anymore

Personally I see that as a good thing, in some cultures music is seen as a social and cultural process and product, almost everyone gets involved to the best of their ability, society is not divided into a few genius artists and 'the rest'. It's a good thing that the means to make music are available to everyone, it's only when people start mystifying artistic production as something only certain people are capable of (and in Capitalist societies this is a function of bumping up their monetary value) that this is a problem. The more making music the better and we really need to get over our narrow perceptions of value.

[foosnark]

nobody really does anything DIFFERENT anymore...

This really isn't true, though.

When I was growing up, there were two options to discover music -- listen to the radio, or buy tapes/records (maybe with the help of magazines like Alternative Press). The radio played mainstream stuff, except for the college radio station that sometimes was more diverse. Record stores sold mostly mainstream stuff too, except for "new age" (which hid some good electronic stuff) and some industrial; to get more interesting music you'd have to mail-order it or go to that big cool record store that was an hour's drive away. And 3/4 of the time you'd just be guessing based on cover art and the name of the artist/album because you've never heard it before.

Now? In seconds I can find dark ambient, powernoise, Japanese noise-rock, lowercase, databending, drone, Berlin school, chiptune/jazz/metal fusion, synthwave, vaporwave, albums made entirely on a Kaossilator, live concerts with an Ondes Martenot, tribal industrial, bellydance influenced by steampunk and dubstep, and wildly experimental music.

Someone is making that.

I am. Others in this forum are. Others on other forums are. Most of us aren't getting famous doing it (although there is some relative fame -- Richard Devine, Alessandro Cortini, SURVIVE, Surachai, etc.). And we are not the majority. But the democritazation of music technology has led to MORE creative music being made, not less.

It also means the wannabes and imitators are posting finished but unskillful tracks on Beatport or whatever instead of staying in their garages struggling to tune a guitar.

Creativity is not enhanced by lack of access to tools.

[cron]

nobody really does anything DIFFERENT anymore...

This really isn't true, though.

When I was growing up, there were two options to discover music -- listen to the radio, or buy tapes/records (maybe with the help of magazines like Alternative Press). The radio played mainstream stuff, except for the college radio station that sometimes was more diverse. Record stores sold mostly mainstream stuff too, except for "new age" (which hid some good electronic stuff) and some industrial; to get more interesting music you'd have to mail-order it or go to that big cool record store that was an hour's drive away. And 3/4 of the time you'd just be guessing based on cover art and the name of the artist/album because you've never heard it before.

Now? In seconds I can find dark ambient, powernoise, Japanese noise-rock, lowercase, databending, drone, Berlin school, chiptune/jazz/metal fusion, synthwave, vaporwave, albums made entirely on a Kaossilator, live concerts with an Ondes Martenot, tribal industrial, bellydance influenced by steampunk and dubstep, and wildly experimental music.

Someone is making that.

I am. Others in this forum are. Others on other forums are. Most of us aren't getting famous doing it (although there is some relative fame -- Richard Devine, Alessandro Cortini, SURVIVE, Surachai, etc.). And we are not the majority. But the democritazation of music technology has led to MORE creative music being made, not less.

It also means the wannabes and imitators are posting finished but unskillful tracks on Beatport or whatever instead of staying in their garages struggling to tune a guitar.

Creativity is not enhanced by lack of access to tools.

Massive, massive agreement here. Music, and particularly music falling under the "dance" umbrella, has never been more wildly diverse than it is now. Year-on-year I've never seen a regression on this. The speed at which underground dance music ticks over is just phenomenal. The kids are already 2 or 3 generations of sounds ahead by the time the big indies are sniffing around the last thing.

Re "too many subgenres", one of the most obvious developments I've seen is subgenres (and just plain genres) largely being left behind in the underground. People aren't really interested in labelling their stuff any more. I think "Bass Music" circa 2010 was perhaps the turning point, a 'genre' name that actively rejected a consistent sound and instead celebrated cross-pollination of styles, covering an almost ironically diverse array of sonics.

The press seem to have adapted by using consistent 'descriptions' of music rather than genre names. Take the harsh, kinda post-industrial atonal sound with no name a lot of the kids like at the moment. There's a massive scene around this strangely nameless thing. My friends and I call it "all that Blade Runner shit". The magazines all have their own term that they'll consistently drop into any write-up touching on the sound. I think "deconstructed club music" is probably the most common (and amusing) one I've seen. They'll drop it into a sentence somewhere in the write-up (or the label will drop it somewhere in the press release), but they'll never use it as a proper name, and the kids certainly wouldn't acknowledge it even if they did. https://soundcloud.com/dis_fig/shalt-x- ... g-bootie-1

[damoog]

nobody really does anything DIFFERENT anymore...

This really isn't true, though.

When I was growing up, there were two options to discover music -- listen to the radio, or buy tapes/records (maybe with the help of magazines like Alternative Press). The radio played mainstream stuff, except for the college radio station that sometimes was more diverse. Record stores sold mostly mainstream stuff too, except for "new age" (which hid some good electronic stuff) and some industrial; to get more interesting music you'd have to mail-order it or go to that big cool record store that was an hour's drive away. And 3/4 of the time you'd just be guessing based on cover art and the name of the artist/album because you've never heard it before.

Now? In seconds I can find dark ambient, powernoise, Japanese noise-rock, lowercase, databending, drone, Berlin school, chiptune/jazz/metal fusion, synthwave, vaporwave, albums made entirely on a Kaossilator, live concerts with an Ondes Martenot, tribal industrial, bellydance influenced by steampunk and dubstep, and wildly experimental music.

Someone is making that.

I am. Others in this forum are. Others on other forums are. Most of us aren't getting famous doing it (although there is some relative fame -- Richard Devine, Alessandro Cortini, SURVIVE, Surachai, etc.). And we are not the majority. But the democritazation of music technology has led to MORE creative music being made, not less.

It also means the wannabes and imitators are posting finished but unskillful tracks on Beatport or whatever instead of staying in their garages struggling to tune a guitar.

Creativity is not enhanced by lack of access to tools.

Massive, massive agreement here. Music, and particularly music falling under the "dance" umbrella, has never been more wildly diverse than it is now. Year-on-year I've never seen a regression on this. The speed at which underground dance music ticks over is just phenomenal. The kids are already 2 or 3 generations of sounds ahead by the time the big indies are sniffing around the last thing.

Re "too many subgenres", one of the most obvious developments I've seen is subgenres (and just plain genres) largely being left behind in the underground. People aren't really interested in labelling their stuff any more. I think "Bass Music" circa 2010 was perhaps the turning point, a 'genre' name that actively rejected a consistent sound and instead celebrated cross-pollination of styles, covering an almost ironically diverse array of sonics.

The press seem to have adapted by using consistent 'descriptions' of music rather than genre names. Take the harsh, kinda post-industrial atonal sound with no name a lot of the kids like at the moment. There's a massive scene around this strangely nameless thing. My friends and I call it "all that Blade Runner shit". The magazines all have their own term that they'll consistently drop into any write-up touching on the sound. I think "deconstructed club music" is probably the most common (and amusing) one I've seen. They'll drop it into a sentence somewhere in the write-up (or the label will drop it somewhere in the press release), but they'll never use it as a proper name, and the kids certainly wouldn't acknowledge it even if they did. https://soundcloud.com/dis_fig/shalt-x- ... g-bootie-1

Blade runner shit?...now we are talking...point me in that direction please

[ghettosynth]

nobody really does anything DIFFERENT anymore...

This really isn't true, though.

When I was growing up, there were two options to discover music -- listen to the radio, or buy tapes/records (maybe with the help of magazines like Alternative Press). The radio played mainstream stuff, except for the college radio station that sometimes was more diverse. Record stores sold mostly mainstream stuff too, except for "new age" (which hid some good electronic stuff) and some industrial; to get more interesting music you'd have to mail-order it or go to that big cool record store that was an hour's drive away. And 3/4 of the time you'd just be guessing based on cover art and the name of the artist/album because you've never heard it before.

Now? In seconds I can find dark ambient, powernoise, Japanese noise-rock, lowercase, databending, drone, Berlin school, chiptune/jazz/metal fusion, synthwave, vaporwave, albums made entirely on a Kaossilator, live concerts with an Ondes Martenot, tribal industrial, bellydance influenced by steampunk and dubstep, and wildly experimental music.

Someone is making that.

I am. Others in this forum are. Others on other forums are. Most of us aren't getting famous doing it (although there is some relative fame -- Richard Devine, Alessandro Cortini, SURVIVE, Surachai, etc.). And we are not the majority. But the democritazation of music technology has led to MORE creative music being made, not less.

It also means the wannabes and imitators are posting finished but unskillful tracks on Beatport or whatever instead of staying in their garages struggling to tune a guitar.

Creativity is not enhanced by lack of access to tools.

Massive, massive agreement here. Music, and particularly music falling under the "dance" umbrella, has never been more wildly diverse than it is now. Year-on-year I've never seen a regression on this. The speed at which underground dance music ticks over is just phenomenal. The kids are already 2 or 3 generations of sounds ahead by the time the big indies are sniffing around the last thing.

Re "too many subgenres", one of the most obvious developments I've seen is subgenres (and just plain genres) largely being left behind in the underground. People aren't really interested in labelling their stuff any more. I think "Bass Music" circa 2010 was perhaps the turning point, a 'genre' name that actively rejected a consistent sound and instead celebrated cross-pollination of styles, covering an almost ironically diverse array of sonics.

The press seem to have adapted by using consistent 'descriptions' of music rather than genre names. Take the harsh, kinda post-industrial atonal sound with no name a lot of the kids like at the moment. There's a massive scene around this strangely nameless thing. My friends and I call it "all that Blade Runner shit". The magazines all have their own term that they'll consistently drop into any write-up touching on the sound. I think "deconstructed club music" is probably the most common (and amusing) one I've seen. They'll drop it into a sentence somewhere in the write-up (or the label will drop it somewhere in the press release), but they'll never use it as a proper name, and the kids certainly wouldn't acknowledge it even if they did. https://soundcloud.com/dis_fig/shalt-x- ... g-bootie-1

I don't have much to add to these excellent comments other than to add my voice of support and agreement.

I will say this. Music today serves a similar role in my life that I suspect that it served before there was a music industry. It is a social conduit. I meet new friends with similar taste through the online release and promotion of my music and that leads to other, largely social, opportunities. We get together locally and virtually to create music together and just because, although quite often, the music that we all create becomes a part of our activities.

[cron]

Blade runner shit?...now we are talking...point me in that direction please

Hehe, it doesn't sound like the Blade Runner soundtrack or anything. We just call it that because it's got that cold, humourless, futuristic dystopian thing going on. It's not a sound I've got a great deal of love for (although I could listen to that 'Diana Ross over a SHALT track' bootleg I posted all day). That track is a great example of the kind of thing I'm talking about, although the vocals on top make it a little more approachable and bring a much needed light touch of fun to proceedings.

Now I'm in my mid-30s, I'm getting to that point where I'll hear something new and be like "kids, what even is this? I can't even understand this, let alone enjoy it" and I absolutely love it!

I will say this. Music today serves a similar role in my life that I suspect that it served before there was a music industry. It is a social conduit. I meet new friends with similar taste through the online release and promotion of my music and that leads to other, largely social, opportunities. We get together locally and virtually to create music together and just because, although quite often, the music that we all create becomes a part of our activities.

Same deal with the crew I was in. The releases were almost secondary. I was only really doing the radio and DJ stuff, but so much of it was just hanging out, talking about music, B2B mixing over a few drinks and spliffs, and getting super excited about putting the music we loved out there in whatever way we could.

[Harry_HH]

The main argument of the OP was, that artists (music makers) are more lazy today than previously. They aren't willing to work for the succes and give up.

Maybe that is partly true, but only because of two major changes:

1. The number of music makers, bedroom producers are now higher, including people in all age group, social classes and education groups.
Of course the proportional amount of those people who do music with "the taste of blood in their mouth" is smaller, but not the absolute amount.

Why there are so many great football players in the South-America?: because of the culture, which supports it, and for many child the football, sports and music are most obvious alternative, way (athough unlike) to the social rise.

People with their stomach full can afford just hobby things. That fact has not changed - only the amount of people stomach full is now bigger.

2. The change of music business, technology and the change of the music consumption.
Good pieces can still sell, but in the golden years of the record markets even a minor hit made the people in the value chain (sometimes even the musicians) rich, the mechanisms of the music marketing have changed.
The bigger proportion of the money has to earn by touring, concerts.

In the 60's-70's the baby boomers with their consumption habits made many musicians rich - they bought records, their habits to spend social life supported the increase of music industry.

[xoxos]

one time this guy was telling me he went down to mexico

"there was this wasted guy on the street dancing around for us to give him coins, he wasn't even trying"

sometimes you get the message

[foosnark]

My friends and I call it "all that Blade Runner shit". The magazines all have their own term that they'll consistently drop into any write-up touching on the sound. I think "deconstructed club music" is probably the most common (and amusing) one I've seen.

Just gotta say, I like that track. Other stuff from SHALT I'm listening to so far is pretty decent too. Something to chill to while at work.

[camsr]

What happened to the loudness war ending? Seems people forgot how to enjoy un-hyped music. There's some good music out there, with really bad mixing/mastering that does nothing to convey the music. Maybe it's like homogenization for recordings, stemming from laziness or sheer incompetence.

[DJ Warmonger]

Blame the resurgence of vinyl and the fact that kids just have less money than they used to pre-financial-crisis.

This is nonsense. Everyone in the world has more money. But no one buys music anymore, it's all on torrents. Streaming is omnipresent. Or you can just copy gigabytes of mp3 from your friend within minutes.

Vinyl is just a collectors item reserved for 1% of releases.

I remember just even 5 years back, I would wait for a DJ to finish playing before approaching him and putting my phone next to his ear so he can tell me what the song title of this song was after recording it on the very basic 'color' phone. Going to production, I went and met with every single music producer and became friends with as many promoters, label owners, other producers, etc as I can

How about socially ankward guys who have no friends?

What happened to the loudness war ending?

Uhm, what? I didn't notice any change in club music whatsoever