KVR Audio

adamszabo · Post by **adamszabo** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:55 am

4damind wrote:He should wait some more time and find a solution which works for most users

Umm, no. I already explained this multiple times but I will do it again. I didnt like Synthedit because I couldnt write my own custom code in c++ (since I dont know c++). I didnt like reaktor because you couldnt export any vst. So I never ever wanted to make plugins, I stuck with sound design. Then one day FlowStone (at the time SynthMaker) as introduced into FL Studio and thats how I discovered it. I understood synthmaker right away, I could save my own vst plugins, this was exactly what I wanted! This was 10 years ago, how was I supposed to know 64 bit will not happen till now? So I learned it, made plugins, I can do awesome things with it, but I am stuck with this for the moment. I seriously dont have time to learn a new language right now and start from scratch. So in summary we have two options: I dont make any plugins and JP6K, Phazor and Viper wouldnt exist, or they are 32 bit and people who want can use them.

Chemik · Post by **Chemik** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:10 am

Well, I feel dumb. I don't think I ever made the connection till you said it that you are the one behind JP6K. That is a top 5 all time VST for me. I did an entire song (except drums and some samples) on my upcoming album with it and use it constantly for bass and pads since it is so warm.

And for the thousandth time, would people just spend the couple bucks on jbridge already and stop hassling him? My ears can't tell the difference between 32 and 64 bit and with jbridge, neither can your computer.

Totolitoto · Post by **Totolitoto** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:13 am

Please could the 64bit integrists stop complaining, all you're going to do is piss off Adam and deprive us from this amazing synth.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:19 am

Well, if pointing out the obvious is pissing off the dev, then the issue is surely not on the side of those pointing out. I don't see how it would piss him off though. It has been pointed out, Adam stated his reasons why he still develops in Flowstone, fair enough. I don't think it is wrong though to still point out that a lot of the customer base is on 64-bit these days. It is not a thing which should be "annoying", it's a fact which is surely important to know, unless you are not interested in selling.

Pyrotek45 · Post by **Pyrotek45** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:22 am

There no point in switching to 64bit. If your daw forces you to, find a new daw. 32 programs and 64 bit programs sound identical. Only difference is 64bit can use more ram. That doesn't really help vsts unless its sound libraries amd sample devices.

Totolitoto · Post by **Totolitoto** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:25 am

chk071 wrote:Well, if pointing out the obvious is pissing off the dev, then the issue is surely not on the side of those pointing out. I don't see how it would piss him off though. It has been pointed out, Adam stated his reasons why he still develops in Flowstone, fair enough. I don't think it is wrong though to still point out that a lot of the customer base is on 64-bit these days. It is not a thing which should be "annoying", it's a fact which is surely important to know, unless you are not interested in selling.

The problem is not one guy pointing out the obvious, it's hundreds of persons pointing the obvious for years. How could Adam still ignore this?
Obviously, nowadays, if a dev is 32bit only it either by choice or by lack of choice, don't you think?

Synthman2000 · Post by **Synthman2000** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:28 am

32 vs 64 is a big thing right now, in part because some major players are culling 32 bit in its entirety.

The future will end it entirely. 32 bit/64 bit it all sounds the same, the sound quality is not in question. It is a practical operational issue.

It was a big thing for the last years and still is. So to release a 32 bit plug in only and you will get lots of replies related to it and why it cannot be 64bit. I made a mistake 5-6 years ago installed a 32 bit DAW ona 64 bit OS it was fine for fiddling about, to make serious complex productions it was bad news on the memory front. I kept struggling on, I had some replies saying switch to 64bit, 32 bit has been old news for 7 years now etc. etc. In the end I had multiple reasons to do it, a scales tipping kind of thing.. Just one of those things, much like what Adam is now experiencing but on the developer side it is not quite as easy as a couple of day reinstall..

People are right, nothing can be done it seems with ease. However I do understand the "Can it be 64 bit? Becuase ...x y and z" posts.. they come from disappointment. The Virus is a great synth and it is disappointing for many people that 64 bit native is not a reality. So you have a choice, a really easy one.. bridge it or don't use it, that's it, onwards we tread.

At least we have clarity of what Viper is and is not. That will be the last post on the matter from me. I will see how people like it and decide whether to give it a try.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:29 am

Pyrotek45 wrote:There no point in switching to 64bit. If your daw forces you to, find a new daw. 32 programs and 64 bit programs sound identical. Only difference is 64bit can use more ram. That doesn't really help vsts unless its sound libraries amd sample devices.

Well, at least Windows 10 is on a good way to throw all the 32-bit libraries out, bit by bit. So, yes, there is a good point switching to 64-bit, because, one day, 32-bit will simply not work anymore. Cubase and Reason are already 64-bit only, others will soon follow. 64-bit OS's exist for more than 15 years now. The advantages don't only include the usage of more Ram. Read up on it on Wikipedia. A properly coded 64-bit software is also software, and, as mentioned, more future proof.

Anyway, maybe time to get back to Viper indeed. Adam pointed out why there won't be a 64-bit version, so, no point in nagging. I do think it is important to point it out anyway though.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:31 am

Totolitoto wrote:
chk071 wrote:Well, if pointing out the obvious is pissing off the dev, then the issue is surely not on the side of those pointing out. I don't see how it would piss him off though. It has been pointed out, Adam stated his reasons why he still develops in Flowstone, fair enough. I don't think it is wrong though to still point out that a lot of the customer base is on 64-bit these days. It is not a thing which should be "annoying", it's a fact which is surely important to know, unless you are not interested in selling.
The problem is not one guy pointing out the obvious, it's hundreds of persons pointing the obvious for years. How could Adam still ignore this?

Well, good question.

Not that he'd be the only one though. The Cell VST will be 32-bit only also.

Pyrotek45 · Post by **Pyrotek45** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:34 am

I think untill every plug is 64bit theres no point in upgrading. I never felt the so called disadvantage of 32bit yet. I doubt smart companies like fl will throw away 32bit anytime(if at all). Seems i have more problems with 64bit anyways.

Kumi_27 · Post by **Kumi_27** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:38 am

chk071 wrote:Well, at least Windows 10 is on a good way to throw all the 32-bit libraries out, bit by bit.

Yes, of course. Especially the 32 bit version of Windows 10. Yes, it exists

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:40 am

Pyrotek45 wrote:Seems i have more problems with 64bit anyways.

How? I run 2 64-bit DAW's, and about 50 64-bit plugins, and don't have the slightest problem. Of course, your thing (and others). But, 32-bit will be running out at some point, there's no doubt about that. It's always a matter of a consideration if it still makes sense to support 32-bit, when your customer base is widely using 64-bit, and if big DAW's like Cubase and Reason (i think there's others too) are 64-bit only now, then you can see how big the customer base still using 32-bit will be. Hint: Not big.

adamszabo · Post by **adamszabo** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:44 am

Haha, nah I wont get pissed off, as a side note, MAC people are worse hehehe

Anyway, lets not derail the topic with more 32 vs 64 bit issues. Right now I think bridging is a small sacrifice to pay for this plugin. Jbridge usually crashes with plugins that are slapped together by amateurs who dont know what they are doing, but Viper is stable so far, no issues over here. As a final word: I think the FlowStone guys know as well that one day they have to move on to 64 bit to keep the business going. When this happens I will hopefully just have to click a button called "export to 64 bit" and we can open the champagne!

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:45 am

adamtrance wrote:
4damind wrote:He should wait some more time and find a solution which works for most users
Umm, no. I already explained this multiple times but I will do it again. I didnt like Synthedit because I couldnt write my own custom code in c++ (since I dont know c++). I didnt like reaktor because you couldnt export any vst. So I never ever wanted to make plugins, I stuck with sound design. Then one day FlowStone (at the time SynthMaker) as introduced into FL Studio and thats how I discovered it. I understood synthmaker right away, I could save my own vst plugins, this was exactly what I wanted! This was 10 years ago, how was I supposed to know 64 bit will not happen till now? So I learned it, made plugins, I can do awesome things with it, but I am stuck with this for the moment. I seriously dont have time to learn a new language right now and start from scratch. So in summary we have two options: I dont make any plugins and JP6K, Phazor and Viper wouldnt exist, or they are 32 bit and people who want can use them.

I think you have 2 different options:
Find a guy which helps to bring this synth to a new level (something like a partnership). Afaik this "Booty" guy goes this way with some of his ideas for FX plugins. Steven Slate too (he has Fabrice Gabriel for the coding). You have the idea and basic algorithms/building blocks in Flowstone another guy knows how to port this to a native plugin. If you don't have the needed knowledge and the money to hire a developer you need a different approach.
The plugin market is IMO big and still growing. You can make good money with a good plugin. I remember Spire.. something like a instant success from unknown guys from Russia. But you must do it right and no half-baked stuff.

Something like a "Minihost"? Afaik Imageline is using such solution for their plugins which are developed with Delphi ("Pascal"). Maybe there are other ideas in this direction to load a 32 Bit plugin with a 64Bit wrapper (not speaking about a custom JBridge.. I don't know how expensive this is.. but you can ask the developer... maybe he is interested for a collaboration)

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:46 am

Kumi_27 wrote:
chk071 wrote:Well, at least Windows 10 is on a good way to throw all the 32-bit libraries out, bit by bit.
Yes, of course. Especially the 32 bit version of Windows 10. Yes, it exists

Yeah, it exists. Surprisingly, if you take a look at figures which show the market share of the 32-bit version. IMO, only entry level tablets with 2 GB Ram or less will still run it. http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey It's a survey from the gaming platform Steam, so, not 100% representative, but you may get a picture anyway, when you click on the "OS" line.

Viper｜1.2.2 update with bugfixes and new skin