i've wrestled with this over a year, when i asked before i got a terse response implying it was me being stupid.
so ive fought with it more and more but ive gotten nowhere.
i make my midi programs in the midi plugins folder named 000 rest-of-name to 127 rest-of-name yet some come up out of order and some that arent even in the folder come up.
i unload and reload hive after before and after everything ive tried. i shut down and restart reaper, i even reboot the laptop.
i have never had anything remotely like this kind of trouble and ive been using midi synths since the 80s.
i have to say my fave vst for midi programs was albino, you could point it at a folder and it would select programs in their folder order with no problem and you could save and edit on the fly and even point multiple instances to multiple folders.
to get anything i can even use onstage has taken me nights and nights of struggling and even then i dont understand why its behaving so weird and i have to do all sorts of tricks to get programs to come up in the right spot.
in the end once i get it i dont want to mess it up so i never edit programs again, or add new ones, because its too much hassle.
am i just missing something? please tell me what
explain why/how midi program change on hive/diva is so messed up
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- KVRian
- 1480 posts since 14 Jun, 2003
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- KVRAF
- 4811 posts since 21 Jan, 2008 from oO
Well, there is a Special folder in the default preset installation path. You need to copy the patches you want to use in there and then apply program change. It follows the list alphabetically i think. The manual explains it as well.
Not sure what exactly your issue is tho
Not sure what exactly your issue is tho
JamWide - a cross-platform Ninjam client for DAWs
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Funkybot's Evil Twin Funkybot's Evil Twin https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=116627
- KVRAF
- 12495 posts since 16 Aug, 2006
I never had issues. I'd create and save a preset in a normal folder (or take an existing one) then copy the preset into the MIDI Programs folder then just completely close and restart the synth. There were no extra hoops to jump through.
Are you sure you're saving the presets to the correct [synth name].data folder? All my RePro-1 midi programs are under Repro-1.data\Presets\Repro-1\MIDI Programs and they work just fine. If you've played around with install locations, there's a chance you can have multiple and you're saving to the wrong one. That's happened to me more than once.
Note: I'm not renaming them by adding the 000 or anything like that. Though, I can't see how that would break anything if you wanted them in a certain order. If anything, maybe post a screenshot of your Presets folder with the full menu path exposed, and/or confirm that's the exact same directory the synth is pointing to.
Are you sure you're saving the presets to the correct [synth name].data folder? All my RePro-1 midi programs are under Repro-1.data\Presets\Repro-1\MIDI Programs and they work just fine. If you've played around with install locations, there's a chance you can have multiple and you're saving to the wrong one. That's happened to me more than once.
Note: I'm not renaming them by adding the 000 or anything like that. Though, I can't see how that would break anything if you wanted them in a certain order. If anything, maybe post a screenshot of your Presets folder with the full menu path exposed, and/or confirm that's the exact same directory the synth is pointing to.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1480 posts since 14 Jun, 2003
yep, ive checked the path and theres some correlation when i put new programs in. theyll all be there but when you midi select them they'll almost be in order but there'll be some glitches, some numbers will come up in the wrong order.
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- KVRAF
- 4141 posts since 11 Aug, 2006 from Texas
Is this Linux? That's the only place where I've seen presets numbered 000 XXX - 127 XXX come up out of order. Otherwise I've written a guide to program change with u-he products here:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=436863
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=436863
Feel free to call me Brian.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1480 posts since 14 Jun, 2003
windows 7 and windows 8.1
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Funkybot's Evil Twin Funkybot's Evil Twin https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=116627
- KVRAF
- 12495 posts since 16 Aug, 2006
Is the issue consistent? Is it always the same programs getting skipped at the same time? Is is the the same program changes being skipped in both synths? For instance, "#32 is always skipped, it goes from 31 to 33 in both Diva and Hive every time."
I'm assuming you've already looked at the program changes messages themselves and ruled out the hardware itself as being the culprit (you mentioned Albino works) and are already running the latest builds of everything. If not, just double check the program change messages themselves to make sure the hardware isn't skipping any program changes, and/or install the latest builds which can be found as stickies in the forum.
Lastly, and most importantly, if all roads point to this being a bug, then I'd suggest that you:
1. Create a project in your DAW with the program change messages that cause the issue recorded onto a track with Diva and/or Hive
2. Make a copy your MIDI Programs folder for the synth(s)
3. Zip the DAW project and the MIDI Programs folder(s) and...
4. Open a support ticket via the U-he website (including a link to the zip file)
This way, they should be able to open the DAW, copy over the MIDI programs, and just hit play on the project to see the issue for themselves. From there, they should be able to debug whatever's happening.
I'm assuming you've already looked at the program changes messages themselves and ruled out the hardware itself as being the culprit (you mentioned Albino works) and are already running the latest builds of everything. If not, just double check the program change messages themselves to make sure the hardware isn't skipping any program changes, and/or install the latest builds which can be found as stickies in the forum.
Lastly, and most importantly, if all roads point to this being a bug, then I'd suggest that you:
1. Create a project in your DAW with the program change messages that cause the issue recorded onto a track with Diva and/or Hive
2. Make a copy your MIDI Programs folder for the synth(s)
3. Zip the DAW project and the MIDI Programs folder(s) and...
4. Open a support ticket via the U-he website (including a link to the zip file)
This way, they should be able to open the DAW, copy over the MIDI programs, and just hit play on the project to see the issue for themselves. From there, they should be able to debug whatever's happening.
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- KVRian
- 574 posts since 20 Aug, 2013
If it was one of us u-he guys, then link please.Tony Ostinato wrote:when i asked before i got a terse response implying it was me being stupid
Are you sending both program change and bank change at once?
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1480 posts since 14 Jun, 2003
i spent several hours yesterday and i got 16 programs in a row to behave so i think i am onto something, but not well enough i can explain it to myself yet, let alone anyone else.
i am just sending program change.
it selects the patch file in the right order, i didn't realize a patch can still point to another patch so i've been re-saving with the patches pointing to themselves.
so picture you send 001 but 037 comes up in the display its because somehow 001 got saved while it was pointing to 037 if that makes any sense.
i am just sending program change.
it selects the patch file in the right order, i didn't realize a patch can still point to another patch so i've been re-saving with the patches pointing to themselves.
so picture you send 001 but 037 comes up in the display its because somehow 001 got saved while it was pointing to 037 if that makes any sense.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1480 posts since 14 Jun, 2003
i have also had the file folder window for midi programs open while editing and for every save ive removed hive from the project and deleted its midi cache txt file and then reloaded hive so it generates a new midi cache txt.
except it stops generating the file after a couple rounds of that so i save the project without hive and reload it and go on for a few more cycles.
except it stops generating the file after a couple rounds of that so i save the project without hive and reload it and go on for a few more cycles.
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- KVRAF
- 4141 posts since 11 Aug, 2006 from Texas
Ah, I think this may be why you are seeing strange behavior. When you say "reload" are you completely closing your host or are you just removing an instance of a plugin and re-adding it? If you are doing the second type you're not actually unloading the plugin completely.Tony Ostinato wrote:i have also had the file folder window for midi programs open while editing and for every save ive removed hive from the project and deleted its midi cache txt file and then reloaded hive so it generates a new midi cache txt.
except it stops generating the file after a couple rounds of that so i save the project without hive and reload it and go on for a few more cycles.
You should not need to touch the midi cache file at all. Try this:
1. close your daw, if open
2. setup midi programs .h2p patches but do not touch or alter the midi cache file.
3. load your daw
4. load an instance of the u-he plug you want to test.
5. if you want to make any changes go to step 1. Do not alter midi programs while your daw is loaded.
Does this work consistently for you?
Feel free to call me Brian.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1480 posts since 14 Jun, 2003
oh i tried that along the way and it doesnt clear up the main problem at all. its a good way to not realize youre messing things up even more tho which i found out along the way.
tried it again with the old messed up bank with messed up patches and it has no effect on them.
what i was saying is you can get away with 4-6 edits by unloading the plugin and reloading it and if it writes a cache file you know it got the edits. its faster than shutting down and reloading the daw for every patch save, slightly.
ive gotten to patch 40 now, fixing them one by one.
as an aside i think this whole midi programs portion should be rewritten so direct saving and loading is fast and easy and so that different instances can have their own midi programs banks. if i was playing live and had 2 instances of hive i wouldnt be able to click on a number and have 2 different sounds layered from different banks come up.
tried it again with the old messed up bank with messed up patches and it has no effect on them.
what i was saying is you can get away with 4-6 edits by unloading the plugin and reloading it and if it writes a cache file you know it got the edits. its faster than shutting down and reloading the daw for every patch save, slightly.
ive gotten to patch 40 now, fixing them one by one.
as an aside i think this whole midi programs portion should be rewritten so direct saving and loading is fast and easy and so that different instances can have their own midi programs banks. if i was playing live and had 2 instances of hive i wouldnt be able to click on a number and have 2 different sounds layered from different banks come up.