I'm very close to buying Tracktion after playing around with it for few days. But, after seeing all the rave reviews about the new Live 4, I'm wondering again ... I'm not trying to offend Tracktion or Live 4 users; I really would like to hear your opinions.
Questions for experienced users of both softwares:
Is Live 4 ($400) really that much better than Tracktion ($80)? Am I being silly for even comparing them? (like comparing apples and oranges?) If cost is not a factor (suppose you didn't know the price of either software), are there reasons why you would still get Tracktion instead of Live 4?
From reading posts in KVR forum, I'm getting the impression that Live is also clean and straight forward to use, like Tracktion. However, using the two demo softwares, I feel that I can pick up faster with Tracktion. Maybe I haven't given Live enough time yet...
Live 4 is five time better than Tracktion?
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- KVRist
- 126 posts since 5 Mar, 2004 from germany
Hello
You cant compare them. I use tracktion for my audio-stuff only. Its fantastic!
Live is an Live-tool and with some new ideas in music-production. like session and arrange-view.
webmob
You cant compare them. I use tracktion for my audio-stuff only. Its fantastic!
Live is an Live-tool and with some new ideas in music-production. like session and arrange-view.
webmob
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snezhinskproject snezhinskproject https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=11877
- KVRist
- 46 posts since 21 Jan, 2004
I've been using Live for a few weeks now, mainly Rewired to Tracktion. I have to say that I'm getting the same buzz off Live that I originally did from Tracktion when I first used it, and more.
Some things Live is unquestionably better at, e.g. MIDI, timestretching, jamming. I think that what it is truly brilliant at is arranging, for me this is a godsend. The session clip system is great and it helps get you out of that 'listening to the same old loop' rut that you always get, by separating your simple loop work from your main arrangement. The arrangement system has a BIG advantage over Tracktion in letting you drag automation data with clips - one of the most serious absences from Tracktion.
In the future, I see myself doing most of my part creation, arrangement, and 'ideas' in Live. I think I will use Tracktion mainly for bouncing finished parts and sequences down to audio, ready to be properly mixed and mastered. However, certain things will still require Tracktion, i.e. any complex instruments using routing/racks (although you could use EnergyXT for this within Live). Also for detailed intricate audio tricks/chopping Live doesn't really cut it - that will remain in Tracktion, but the lack of a decent timetretch is really hampering.
Rewiring Tracktion and Live together allows you to have the best of both worlds TO AN EXTENT. The problem of not being able to use VST plugins in Live when it is slaved to Tracktion prevents Live/Tracktion being an almost perfect producing environment.
Some things Live is unquestionably better at, e.g. MIDI, timestretching, jamming. I think that what it is truly brilliant at is arranging, for me this is a godsend. The session clip system is great and it helps get you out of that 'listening to the same old loop' rut that you always get, by separating your simple loop work from your main arrangement. The arrangement system has a BIG advantage over Tracktion in letting you drag automation data with clips - one of the most serious absences from Tracktion.
In the future, I see myself doing most of my part creation, arrangement, and 'ideas' in Live. I think I will use Tracktion mainly for bouncing finished parts and sequences down to audio, ready to be properly mixed and mastered. However, certain things will still require Tracktion, i.e. any complex instruments using routing/racks (although you could use EnergyXT for this within Live). Also for detailed intricate audio tricks/chopping Live doesn't really cut it - that will remain in Tracktion, but the lack of a decent timetretch is really hampering.
Rewiring Tracktion and Live together allows you to have the best of both worlds TO AN EXTENT. The problem of not being able to use VST plugins in Live when it is slaved to Tracktion prevents Live/Tracktion being an almost perfect producing environment.
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- KVRist
- 133 posts since 19 Jan, 2003
Live is really worth the extra price, if you need the extra features. Tracktion is audio sequencer with average, but working midi support, while live is much more than that. If you only need audio recording, then Live is not worth the extra price, but otherwise it really is much better.
Main tracktion selling points are the *very* easy learning curve and racks, and this is where it is clearly better than live.
Main tracktion selling points are the *very* easy learning curve and racks, and this is where it is clearly better than live.
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- KVRist
- 76 posts since 31 Jan, 2003 from Outer Bongolia
I found one huge fundamental flaw when demoing Live 4 that made me discard the possibility of a purchase for now.
I record a lot of audio, mostly a few bars at a time, track after track. Live 4 can only play one clip per track, ever. -No- overlaps. Problem is, if you record eg. 4 bars of a Rhodes riff, you'd want the last notes to die out naturally (say you're using the pedal) past the last of the 4 bars, but you want the next clip to start on time on the next bar. You can't. You have to switch between two tracks per instrument, you have to copy the settings (and CPU-intensive FX!) and keep them sychnronised between the two, and that just makes too much of a mess for me.
Otherwise it is a -great- sequencer.
I record a lot of audio, mostly a few bars at a time, track after track. Live 4 can only play one clip per track, ever. -No- overlaps. Problem is, if you record eg. 4 bars of a Rhodes riff, you'd want the last notes to die out naturally (say you're using the pedal) past the last of the 4 bars, but you want the next clip to start on time on the next bar. You can't. You have to switch between two tracks per instrument, you have to copy the settings (and CPU-intensive FX!) and keep them sychnronised between the two, and that just makes too much of a mess for me.
Otherwise it is a -great- sequencer.
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- KVRAF
- 2336 posts since 13 Oct, 2002 from Terra Firma
I think in the arrangement view you can edit your clips to achieve what you want to do.kobresia wrote:I found one huge fundamental flaw when demoing Live 4 that made me discard the possibility of a purchase for now.
I record a lot of audio, mostly a few bars at a time, track after track. Live 4 can only play one clip per track, ever. -No- overlaps. Problem is, if you record eg. 4 bars of a Rhodes riff, you'd want the last notes to die out naturally (say you're using the pedal) past the last of the 4 bars, but you want the next clip to start on time on the next bar. You can't. You have to switch between two tracks per instrument, you have to copy the settings (and CPU-intensive FX!) and keep them sychnronised between the two, and that just makes too much of a mess for me.
Otherwise it is a -great- sequencer.
I like the pattern based way of working in Live. I've tried out Tracktion in the past and it's very good but as with most hosts it uses a linear way of working which I find does not suit me. I don't think you can compare Live with Tracktion because of the difference in how they work.
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- KVRAF
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
You can play any number of different audio clips on one track, one after the other? ...You do have to leave space before and after audio recordings, if you want to have a nice decay, or flexibility in timing...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 33 posts since 19 Aug, 2004
Oh, maybe that's the missing link. I was trying to use Live like Tracktion in a linear fashion. Because I couldn't record the entire guitar arpeggio sequence without messing up, I recorded them in sections (per chord) using Tracktion and shifted/looped the clips around the track. It worked surprisingly well, except for the clicks at the beginning of every clip (don't know why). It was really fun doing this in Tracktion. In any case, I thought Live 4 works the same way, you know, by shifting clips around.munchkin wrote:I like the pattern based way of working in Live. I've tried out Tracktion in the past and it's very good but as with most hosts it uses a linear way of working which I find does not suit me. I don't think you can compare Live with Tracktion because of the difference in how they work.
It sounds like I really need to spend a lot more time with both softwares. One reason I'm having hard time demoing Live 4 is that I can't save my work. I work pretty slow and I don't have long stretch of free time, so I have to keep starting all over again. Wouldn't it be cool if Computer Music mag release a special version of Live?
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Robert Randolph Robert Randolph https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7328 - KVRAF
- 2226 posts since 25 May, 2003 from Saint Petersburg, Florida
Tracktion was made primarily to record audio...
Live 4 to manipulate loops and live playback...
there's no comparison. It strongly depends on what you wish to do with it.
Live 4 to manipulate loops and live playback...
there's no comparison. It strongly depends on what you wish to do with it.
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- KVRAF
- 1974 posts since 21 Jun, 2002 from Earth
Honestly, I think if you work strictly in a linear fashion then Tracktion is the stronger application. I find using Live in a linear way somewhat painful. I hate the lack of simple one key shortcuts, the way the zoom works, and the fact that it doesn't supplort mouse wheels. In that aspect, it's wasting functionality that could make navigating it's interface much better when composing in the linear fashion. I do however wish automation was assigned to clips, and I wish one could "paint" clips like in Live/Acid. However, the navigation ultimately is what determines my level of productivity.. and this is one spot where T shines (IMO of course). It like, you can easily have lots of simultaneous actions going on...
However, if you are into composing on the fly... then Live is absolutely unbeatable in that respect!
However, if you are into composing on the fly... then Live is absolutely unbeatable in that respect!
ModuLR / Radio
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- KVRist
- 293 posts since 18 Jul, 2003
It sounds like you really need to spend more time with the guitar so you don't have to mess around with this kind of stuff when recording. If you could actually play the part that might help. Computers are good tools, but please don't use them as a crutch...Because I couldn't record the entire guitar arpeggio sequence without messing up, I recorded them in sections (per chord) using Tracktion and shifted/looped the clips around the track.
It sounds like I really need to spend a lot more time with both softwares.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 33 posts since 19 Aug, 2004
I see. To be honest, I do feel a lot more comfortable working in linear fashion. I've been brain washed 
by my Tascam 4-track recorder, which I still use as a mixer. 
I was distracted by all the buzz by the magazine reviews and praises. I wouldn't want to miss out on a "must have" application...you know what I mean
Sometimes I wonder how more incredible Tracktion would be if programmers of similar calibre would help Jules out. I mean Tracktion is already incredible as it is; I still can't believe this is a work of one man!
by my Tascam 4-track recorder, which I still use as a mixer. I was distracted by all the buzz by the magazine reviews and praises. I wouldn't want to miss out on a "must have" application...you know what I mean
Sometimes I wonder how more incredible Tracktion would be if programmers of similar calibre would help Jules out. I mean Tracktion is already incredible as it is; I still can't believe this is a work of one man!
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- KVRist
- 69 posts since 3 Jul, 2004 from SC
Yeah, and let's all be sure to play in perfect time so that we don't have to use the quantize function.rockin1 wrote: It sounds like you really need to spend more time with the guitar so you don't have to mess around with this kind of stuff when recording. If you could actually play the part that might help. Computers are good tools, but please don't use them as a crutch...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 33 posts since 19 Aug, 2004
You are absolutely right, rockin1. I definitely need to practice my guitar more. I'm very rusty since I basically stopped playing after college. My work and family put a tight squeeze on my leisure time. Yeah, I know, it's a lame excuse. I'm just trying to compose songs making the best of what I have so far.rockin1 wrote:It sounds like you really need to spend more time with the guitar so you don't have to mess around with this kind of stuff when recording. If you could actually play the part that might help. Computers are good tools, but please don't use them as a crutch...Because I couldn't record the entire guitar arpeggio sequence without messing up, I recorded them in sections (per chord) using Tracktion and shifted/looped the clips around the track.
It sounds like I really need to spend a lot more time with both softwares.
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- KVRAF
- 3125 posts since 6 Dec, 2002 from Ljubljana/ Slovenia
Ehm...Rouqmirg wrote:Yeah, and let's all be sure to play in perfect time so that we don't have to use the quantize function.
I don't use quantize function. really.
I tried many times to perfect the take with various ways of quantizing, moving notes.... and always ended up with doing another take.
So basically, comping from takes is ok, quantizing - no. for me at least.
k
(that's why i neeeeeeed the loop recording for audio damn)