I am trying to find an explanation to behaviour I can’t understand. I’m using the Panorama band type in MXXX. The only module under each band is MultiAnalyzer. I set up three bands (about 1/3 width each) and am using a test signal of a sine wave in the left channel and silence in the right.
As I solo the respective bands, the level meter (the master level meter in my DAW) reduces accordingly when a band is solo-ed. The level reduction is reasonable based upon which band is solo-ed (more reduction when band 3 is solo-ed vs. band 2 being solo-ed, and same with bands 2 vs. 1).
Here’s the mystery. The MultiAnalyzer loudness tab clearly shows three levels as expected. But the levels do not change when a band is solo-ed. I would think the non-solo-ed band signals would show a considerable reduction, but there is absolutely zero change.
What’s going on? Any explanation for this?
Multiband Mystery (Panorama Type)
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1759 posts since 11 Nov, 2009 from Northern CA
Here 'tis ...
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- KVRAF
- 2702 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK
OK, so I am having the same results as you have described. But its not an error.
The bands at the top of the plugin are to be thought of as global controls, therefore they happen after the things happening in the modular.
So the analysing had already been done before it even got to the soloing stage.
The bands at the top of the plugin are to be thought of as global controls, therefore they happen after the things happening in the modular.
So the analysing had already been done before it even got to the soloing stage.
Jason @ Melda Production
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- KVRAF
- 10376 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK
After ???jmg8 wrote:The bands at the top of the plugin are to be thought of as global controls, therefore they happen after the things happening in the modular.
Hmm, it looks to me that the frequency split, gain, pan controls are done to the input signal, before the modules. and the Mute and Solo are done after the modules.
I would have thought that all the functions would be applied before the modules, if only to save processing load.
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- KVRAF
- 2702 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK
Yes, sorry, you are correct.DarkStar wrote:After ???jmg8 wrote:The bands at the top of the plugin are to be thought of as global controls, therefore they happen after the things happening in the modular.
Hmm, it looks to me that the frequency split, gain, pan controls are done to the input signal, before the modules. and the Mute and Solo are done after the modules.
I would have thought that all the functions would be applied before the modules, if only to save processing load.
Jason @ Melda Production
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- KVRAF
- 10376 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK
No problem - I but I don't think that that behaviour is correct (that is, I cannot think of a good reason for it 
).
Reported to Vojtech for comment, along with a couple of other oddities (with popped-up modules).
).Reported to Vojtech for comment, along with a couple of other oddities (with popped-up modules).
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1759 posts since 11 Nov, 2009 from Northern CA
Right. In fact, I see that when you activate Bypass for the band, MultiAnalyzer for the band becomes disabled. That is inconsistent with Solo and Mute happening later, IMO. I would think having Solo and Mute happen before the modules would be preferable if only to avoid this sort of confusion. I can't think of any value added for applying the solo/mute state after the modules, but perhaps there's a good reason why it was done this way.DarkStar wrote:I would have thought that all the functions would be applied before the modules, if only to save processing load.
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- KVRAF
- 10376 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK
Vojtech has said that it needs to work this way, as the bands nearly always need to process something, so the Solo and Mute are actioned after the modular processing for each band.
As for using Bypass for a band, MMultiAnalyzer is just using the last info that it received for that band.
As for using Bypass for a band, MMultiAnalyzer is just using the last info that it received for that band.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1759 posts since 11 Nov, 2009 from Northern CA
I have no strong opinion regarding Solo. But Mute is another matter - it's not just for auditioning band-specific settings I would think. I can think of any number of scenarios where you'd want to reduce the content of a band to silence. For example, suppose you were doing panorama band separation and you want band 1 to have input exclusively from the left channel and band 3 exclusively from the right and have nothing in between. So you make band 2 the full width of the band window and set it to mute. That gets the job done, I believe, except with muting coming post-modular-processing, the result could be different from what you wanted.DarkStar wrote:Vojtech has said that it needs to work this way, as the bands nearly always need to process something, so the Solo and Mute are actioned after the modular processing for each band.
As for using Bypass for a band, MMultiAnalyzer is just using the last info that it received for that band.
Does band gain (+/- 24 dB) and pan happen before or after modular processing? I'm not at my DAW or I'd just set up a quick test, but I would think you'd want those settings to operate on the input - to be pre-modular processing. And if gain is pre-modular processing, should not mute also be?
Back to the notion that "it has to work this way". Silence can certainly be a valid input to the subsequent processing, can it not? What is mute beyond setting the signal level to zero?
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1759 posts since 11 Nov, 2009 from Northern CA
OK, nobody being forthcoming about the gain and pan question, I did a quick test. I'm *very* happy to see those adjustments come pre-module-processing. So, I stand by my assertion that mute is a gain setting and ideally should happen in the same place.
I realize it will make little difference in most situations, but if you use mute on a band as permanent part of the preset, it could be important.
Now, totally OT, just watched the MTurboReverb video. Very nice, but somebody should tell the narrator that "paradigm" more or less rhymes with "maritime" - it doesn't end with "dijum" (not that a whole lot of native English speakers would also have made the same error in pronunciation).
I realize it will make little difference in most situations, but if you use mute on a band as permanent part of the preset, it could be important.
Now, totally OT, just watched the MTurboReverb video. Very nice, but somebody should tell the narrator that "paradigm" more or less rhymes with "maritime" - it doesn't end with "dijum" (not that a whole lot of native English speakers would also have made the same error in pronunciation).