Missing repro-1 parameters in host

[Echoes in the Attic]

Getting closer and closer to buying repro (especially with the 5 on the way) and they both seem like the perfect synths for complete hardware control since they have limited controls. However there are some important parameters not visible to the host so they wouldn't be able to be mapped with host based mappings. In repro-1 for example the effects on/off and the overall effects bypass aren't visible, as well as most sequencer related switches on the main panel (strange because even the individual sequencer steps are visible parameters which is cool). Also the targets for the 2 mod slots don't seem to be available which is weird because they are in most other u-he synths.

Repro absolutely begs to be used 100% from hardware but these missing controls would keep one going back to the mouse constantly.

I remember you guys added missing multiplex parameter visibility after Bazille was released. Any chance you'll add the rest of these controls in repro?

Thanks

[EvilDragon]

I remember Urs saying that mod matrix targets are not viable for host automation at all, for multiple reasons, one of them being enumeration of entries when some mod targets get added (which would single-handedly break automation of said parameter in previous DAW projects), because they are added in subfolders, etc. So don't count on it ever happening. (BTW, what's automatable in other u-he synths are not mod targets, but mod sources - which is still the case in RePro-1 (MM1 Source, MM2 Source).

OTOH, arp/seq switches and bypass FX are MIDI learnable, so you can definitely use that.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I remember Urs saying that mod matrix targets are not viable for host automation at all, for multiple reasons, one of them being enumeration of entries when some mod targets get added (which would single-handedly break automation of said parameter in previous DAW projects), because they are added in subfolders, etc. So don't count on it ever happening. (BTW, what's automatable in other u-he synths are not mod targets, but mod sources - which is still the case in RePro-1 (MM1 Source, MM2 Source).

OTOH, arp/seq switches and bypass FX are MIDI learnable, so you can definitely use that.

That reason is weird because of a few things: mod sources could get added to the list as well right? But they are automatable. And, having automation screwed up a bit in the rare case of more targets being added seems a lot better than just not being able to automate those at all. Plus, one could just bounce down before updating if they don't want to adjust automation after an update. But more importantly I don't think anyone would ever actually automate those controls. The point is just to be able to adjust them in things like Maschine, komplete kontrol, kore, novation automap, nektar mappings,bitwig device mappings, Ableton instant mapping, logic and other daw macros. I mean realistically pretty much every hardware control system uses automation ids. Does anyone actually use midi learn anymore?

But yes, regarding the other synths, I stand corrected. They have dedicated sources per control so it is the sources that are automatable there as well. But there are plenty of other synths that expose the mod targets. I doubt it's ever caused a problem for anyone. Like I said, I doubt anyone would ever automate mod targets. Such a shame to have to go back to the mouse constantly for such a nice focused set of controls. I also doubt the mod targets would change in synths dedicated to emulated classic hardware.

[Howard]

Does anyone actually use midi learn anymore?
...
Such a shame to have to go back to the mouse constantly for such a nice focused set of controls.

What exactly makes you reject MIDI CC control?

[EvilDragon]

Does anyone actually use midi learn anymore?

But of course.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Does anyone actually use midi learn anymore?
...
Such a shame to have to go back to the mouse constantly for such a nice focused set of controls.

What exactly makes you reject MIDI CC control?

A few reasons:
-The 2 way communication is much better in host ID systems. You see the values, including list items for example in hardware displays. You can often set the range and tick values as well.
-Also, using midi control means selecting the track to be the focus of the midi control, which isn't always what you want to do. It's much easier with host parameter systems where you can control a plugin independent of what track is selected. Alternatively you could make the midi cc assignment and hardware controller globally assigned (have the track always controlled by a certain midi device, which is also not ideal). We have limited numbers of controllers and it's much better to be able to easily switch between plugins being controlled. Host parameter systems just work so easily comparatively. I'm talking mainly about having a full hardware template as opposed to quickly mapping a couple controls needed for performance and manual automation. And not require tons of different midi cc pages or templates.
-It is so common and easy to use host ID based hardware control (and there are so many different systems using that method like Nektar, Novation, many DAWs, Komplete Kontrol etc.), that to use midi cc control would mean using a blend of the two, which makes it overly complicated. You'd be using one device for the parameters you can control with your main host ID system, and then another controller for midi. It's uncommon to be able to use a blend within a device at the same time, or would require switching to totally different modes on the device.
-It's easier to record automation directly controlling the parameter itself rather than controlling a midi cc that controls the parameter.

I could go on forever but it's just nowhere near as useful as host based mappings. It's much more straight forward just controlling the parameter itself than going through midi cc. I'm honestly surprised anyone uses it anymore unless you have a generic midi device and only need a quick parameter to be mapped for manually recording tweaks every so often. But if you want something like repro to feel like a full hardware controller, host based mapping is the way to go. U-he already supports NKS. However using that system (for example), it's not possible to assign effects on off or mod targets. That alone would be worth it I think.

[RobGee]

I noticed this today also. I was unable map the seq/arp, tweaks settings and effects bypass when setting up mapping using Lemur.

At least they are mappable via midi but as was said earlier you don't get bidirectional control this way.

Disappointing, hopefully they are made visible in a future update.