KORG Legacy Collection updated for macOS High Sierra (first time since 2014)

[Numanoid]

All I can say is caveat emptor:

It is always difficult to judge what might happen in the future so it is hard to say what further development work might take place for the KORG Legacy Collection (if any).

[fmr]

Yeah Korg fix the GUI's! Does anyone think we should reach out to Korg directly for this instead of complaining on the boards? Will they listen?

Probably not, because they've pretty much moved on from KLC to Gadget.

What might make more sense is asking them to port Gadget to Windows, and also give existing KLC customers a special discount price for Gadget. If there's enough demand, especially from people who can show they are existing customers, there's a better chance they might do it if enough people contacted them directly

Are gadget versions as full featured as the KLC versions? Last time I saw, it didn't seem so.

If they are not the same, thanks but no thanks. For me, personally, I don't need a bunch of "meh" synths, I want good emulations of the good ones Korg had in the past (besides those in KLC, I could add PS series, Trident, and OASYS). Not crippled "dumb" versions.

[yul]

Wavestation vst is full featured afaik I wouldn't switch for anything in gadget unless it would support my vst's.

[PAK]

If they are not the same, thanks but no thanks. For me, personally, I don't need a bunch of "meh" synths, I want good emulations of the good ones Korg had in the past (besides those in KLC, I could add PS series, Trident, and OASYS). Not crippled "dumb" versions.

Milpitas /iWavestation includes everything the old KLC VST Wavestation does in terms of editing.

This isn't immediately apparent because they went for a more streamlined "easy" interface which exposes some elements but buries others under a second or third button. It works well with touch screens, but I'd also say it's (overall) a better layout than the older VST version. Of course, I'd rather they used the larger desktop screen to not bury items, but that isn't going to happen.

Here's an editing section screenshot where you can see it does actually go deeper..

[fmr]

If they are not the same, thanks but no thanks. For me, personally, I don't need a bunch of "meh" synths, I want good emulations of the good ones Korg had in the past (besides those in KLC, I could add PS series, Trident, and OASYS). Not crippled "dumb" versions.

Milpitas /iWavestation includes everything the old KLC VST Wavestation does in terms of editing.

This isn't immediately apparent because they went for a more streamlined "easy" interface which exposes some elements but buries others under a second or third button. It works well with touch screens, but I'd also say it's (overall) a better layout than the older VST version. Of course, I'd rather they used the larger desktop screen to not bury items, but that isn't going to happen.

Here's an editing section screenshot where you can see it does actually go deeper..

Several users already said that Milpitas is a simplified version, and that the whole Wavestation is iWavestation. And I think it makes sense, since Korg has launched iWavestation as a standalone app, while Milpitas is part of Gadget, and all gadgets are very streamlined "dummy" synths. It seems they went the same way with M1, where the "gadget" M1 is just a player with very limited editing capabilities. But I have no way to know, since I don't have any of them (nor will I ever - as I said, the whole Gadget bundle seems like a collection of SyntEdit VSTi's of ten years ago - except those were free).

Actually, I was checking and Korg has the entire line of KLC products (+ Odissey) available for iPad so, I hardly believe that the versions built in Gadget are the same - it just wouldn't make sense. Besides, the iWavestation specifications have this somehow "enigmatic" sentence: "Usable as a Milpitas gadget within the Gadget app" which leads me to suspect the Milpitas is just a kind of "player" that needs the full app to edit the sounds. But what do I know?

Anyway, what would be the point of paying for what I don't want. I don't want nothing of what is in gadget, including gadget itself, except what I already have in KLC. So, what I want is that Korg update the KLC edition - if they want to use the GUIs built for the iPad and they are really good, fine with me. But if they are burying editing items under two or three layers, I don't see that as an advantage from what we already have.

But NO GADGET please.

[Jace-BeOS]

Yes, most of the Legacy Collection is now in some form on iPad. MS-20 is not the same, though. The iPad app is called iMS-20 and lacks polyphonic mode, but adds an analog style sequencer (which works as a kind of parameter arpeggiator) and drum mode (which can still be made melodic with programming and sequencer patterns). Most of the other Legacy Synths were ported with different GUIs but essentially the same functionality. Several iPad apps can import presets from the Legacy Collection (though it seems none can export to Legacy or sysex).

The Gadget versions are all feature-reduced in different ways compared to the full app versions, to better fit the Gadget environment. The things that are left off are inconsistent. In some, it's depth of programmability (though all are still programmable), while in others it's access to preset save/load functionality. The inconsistency is annoying and is further reinforcement that these pieces of software are all developed by outside contractors who aren't given a clear set of standard requirements.

The Gadget versions are certainly far more than "SynthEdit VSTis of ten years ago". The engines of the Gadget versions are obviously the same as the full iPad versions with only GUIs being different. The engines of all iPad Korg synths might be derived from the synth code in the Legacy Collection (it would make sense to do this), but i cannot confirm or deny this with any of the available info (it might be interesting to contact Detune and ask them if the iMS-20 and iDS-10 synth engine is the same as the Legacy Series MS-20). One would think that Korg owns the core synth engine code and simply hires out the development of individual software for various platforms. Korg really ought to have their own in-house software development department, but we know that they're only just testing the waters (for decades now) with software and still are a hardware company. Though they've done much better than Roland, et al, in terms of software development from companies historically focused on synth hardware.

[fmr]

Yes, most of the Legacy Collection is now in some form on iPad. MS-20 is not the same, though. The iPad app is called iMS-20 and lacks polyphonic mode, but adds an analog style sequencer (which works as a kind of parameter arpeggiator) and drum mode (which can still be made melodic with programming and sequencer patterns). Most of the other Legacy Synths were ported with different GUIs but essentially the same functionality. Several iPad apps can import presets from the Legacy Collection (though it seems none can export to Legacy or sysex).

The Gadget versions are all feature-reduced in different ways compared to the full app versions, to better fit the Gadget environment. The things that are left off are inconsistent. In some, it's depth of programmability (though all are still programmable), while in others it's access to preset save/load functionality. The inconsistency is annoying and is further reinforcement that these pieces of software are all developed by outside contractors who aren't given a clear set of standard requirements.

The Gadget versions are certainly far more than "SynthEdit VSTis of ten years ago". The engines of the Gadget versions are obviously the same as the full iPad versions with only GUIs being different. The engines of all iPad Korg synths might be derived from the synth code in the Legacy Collection (it would make sense to do this), but i cannot confirm or deny this with any of the available info (it might be interesting to contact Detune and ask them if the iMS-20 and iDS-10 synth engine is the same as the Legacy Series MS-20). One would think that Korg owns the core synth engine code and simply hires out the development of individual software for various platforms. Korg really ought to have their own in-house software development department, but we know that they're only just testing the waters (for decades now) with software and still are a hardware company. Though they've done much better than Roland, et al, in terms of software development from companies historically focused on synth hardware.

So, you are confirming what I suspected. When I said the Gadget versions are "SynthEdit VSTis of ten years ago", I was referring to their limited set of features, not the sound, which I didn't experience. But who would need a "ambient pad synth", a "futuristic pad synth", a spatial mono synth, a retro mono synth, a "bass machine synth", a "blah-blah synth", a PCM synth, a PCM spatial synth, a PCM retro synth, etc, etc.

This is a blatant and shameless way of multiplyi9ng the number of "instruments" to make users believe they have a lot of added value, when, in fact, they have just a bunch of synths that have been done ten years ago, and which code is being sliced down in small pieces, each one being sold as a "new" synth. They could very well have launched this with just a handfull of fully developed synths, each one capable of doing what is now spreaded by five or six units. But then, it wouldn't be for dummies, which clearly is the target market of this product.

As an owner of the full KLC, I would certainly not want to invest in rubbish like this, even at half price. And knowing that it isn't even being developed by Korg, but "outsourced" makes me fear that it may just be buried in a snap, all of a sudden.

At least Roland is now resurrecting the old synthesizers in all their glory, not crippled. D-50 is amazing, and completely faithful to the hardware, while having a great and modern GUI. Now, they just have to optimize the code of the analogue emulations to not kill CPUs, and the GUI scalability.

But the path they are following has nothing to do with what Korg is doing. They are doing what Korg did with KLC. Unfortunately, Korg stopped after launching MonoPoly.

[fallacy]

But who would need a "ambient pad synth", a "futuristic pad synth", a spatial mono synth, a retro mono synth, a "bass machine synth", a "blah-blah synth", a PCM synth, a PCM spatial synth, a PCM retro synth, etc, etc.

Have to agree with you here. One way of looking at it is they've separated functionality that a 'do it all synth' can do in to discrete purpose built synths. But it doesn't take long before you realise some of them are one-trick-pony synths that do very little else than what is on the superficial surface.

Perhaps these limitations could inspire creativity as a result. When used as VSTi/AU you open them up to all the effects you have at your disposal which can potentially turn them in to something more unique.

Having said that - I ended up using Montreal (e.piano) on a recent track because it was immediately within reach. When it came to swapping it with something 'better' when I was tweaking/mixing, I ended up keeping it not because the quality is necessarily stellar, but because it just sounded 'right' in context. So they're nice to have around. Perhaps not $300 nice...

[PAK]

Several users already said that Milpitas is a simplified version

The VST version shares much the same layout - so any differences will be about areas like part edit (or lack of) in the mixer section. Will get around to checking if nobody confirms.

The things that are left off are inconsistent. In some, it's depth of programmability (though all are still programmable), while in others it's access to preset save/load functionality.

It's been a while, but IIRC one of the quirks of Milpitas was only offering a save function if you selected the "User" Card banks..

At least Roland is now resurrecting the old synthesizers in all their glory, not crippled. D-50 is amazing, and completely faithful to the hardware, while having a great and modern GUI. Now, they just have to optimize the code of the analogue emulations to not kill CPUs, and the GUI scalability.

Well, that.. and actually offer it for sale outside of a subscription service

Otherwise you're going to get the crazy situation where people, who buy the D05, then have to go hunting down MIDI editors for it because Roland refuse to sell them a plugin version to do their editing in! So much for the whole plug-out concept etc..

[v1o]

Does the update break compatibility with old versions of Mac OS.

[masterhiggins]

The only thing I'm concerned about is their C/R copy protection (if they do discontinue support). C/R is absolute shit.

[yul]

VST Wavestation is much more powerful in every aspect I suspect Korg realises this already... multiple instances, mouse operation, patch storage options etc.. Ipad is more limited on the verge of little usefulness for a pro user imo...

[kbaccki]

Excuse my ignorance... how does one host instances of iPad synths in, say, reaper or, say, cubase?

[steff3]

But who would need a "ambient pad synth", a "futuristic pad synth", a spatial mono synth, a retro mono synth, a "bass machine synth", a "blah-blah synth", a PCM synth, a PCM spatial synth, a PCM retro synth, etc, etc.

Have to agree with you here. One way of looking at it is they've separated functionality that a 'do it all synth' can do in to discrete purpose built synths. But it doesn't take long before you realise some of them are one-trick-pony synths that do very little else than what is on the superficial surface.

Perhaps these limitations could inspire creativity as a result. When used as VSTi/AU you open them up to all the effects you have at your disposal which can potentially turn them in to something more unique.

Having said that - I ended up using Montreal (e.piano) on a recent track because it was immediately within reach. When it came to swapping it with something 'better' when I was tweaking/mixing, I ended up keeping it not because the quality is necessarily stellar, but because it just sounded 'right' in context. So they're nice to have around. Perhaps not $300 nice...

Sh101, Tb303 etc are also quick one-trick ponies. Minimoog is also quite simple when it comes to sound generation options (lfos, envs, modulators, 1 filter) - no sure what is wrong with that.

[robotmonkey]

As Korg has went along with the sale tactics and have had regular sales, it's obvious that they have not completely dismissed the Legacy product.

But it's also obvious that they have not put much effort in improving it further even though people here have contacted them with request to make GUI larger etc. I personally have written them and always got a polite response back that they might consider it in the future.

One would guess that now that Roland has jumped into VST market big time, Korg will get off sitting on their ass and put more effort into the Legacy collection.