KORG Legacy Collection updated for macOS High Sierra (first time since 2014)

[fmr]

Sh101, Tb303 etc are also quick one-trick ponies. Minimoog is also quite simple when it comes to sound generation options (lfos, envs, modulators, 1 filter) - no sure what is wrong with that.

Probably that's why, during time, more powerful synths had been created. Oberheim SEM appeared as an attempt to expand synths like the Minimoog (which actually was not a one trick poney as you imply, and not as simple as you might think). Then appeared a Oberheim Four-Voice, and Oberheim Eight-Voice, the Prophet-5, the OB-X, the Jupiter-4, the Memorymoog, the Jupiter-8, the Matrix-12, the DX7, the Casio CZ, etc.

I'm not saying that there isn't a place for "simple" synths (in case of Gadget they aren't just simple, they are "simplistic", much more primitive than the Minimoog, IMO). I'm saying that Korg abandoning the fully developed versions to slice them in "simplistic", "one trick pony" synths is absurd, and not what many (like me) want. So, they may keep the Gadget for people like you, it that's what suits you, but let us have the full synths, if that's what we want.

[v1o]

As Korg has went along with the sale tactics and have had regular sales, it's obvious that they have not completely dismissed the Legacy product.

But it's also obvious that they have not put much effort in improving it further even though people here have contacted them with request to make GUI larger etc. I personally have written them and always got a polite response back that they might consider it in the future.

One would guess that now that Roland has jumped into VST market big time, Korg will get off sitting on their ass and put more effort into the Legacy collection.

Like others have said this is a 13 year old legacy product that they maintain with compatibility updates out of goodwill to their customers. The really low sale prices reflects this exactly. The whole suite was quite expensive when it was still new. Most other companies have discontinued their old products because they cannot be bothered to maintain them. And many of the other synths from the same era that still exist today such as ES2, B Station and V-station haven’t been given new skins. So you have to give Korg so me credit.


Korg aren’t sitting on their arses because they are very active with new software development. Including Gadget and several iOS synths. They are actually more prolific than Roland in Software synth development.

[fmr]

Korg aren’t sitting on their arses because they are very active with new software development. Including Gadget and several iOS synths. They are actually more prolific than Roland in Software synth development.

Korg ARE sitting on their arses if this isn't really new code, but recycled and repackaged code (as it seems to be). MORE - they are disrespecting the existing users when they are selling (again) what they already have, presented as new things, while the existing products are being left on their own.

The fact they are maintaining compatibility may very well be due to the fact they are still on the market, and don't want controversies with existing customers. Since those can still use their existing products, they will remain more or less quiet, while Korg goes on selling the repackaged ones to new users.

BTW - There are way more synths from ten years ago than those you quoted. Zebra, fore example, is from that same era, and is still maintained and upgraded. ES2 also received updates (it's inside Logic). Novation left the software market.

[fmr]

Another example of what is wrong with all this marketing "mambo-jambo":

Here is what's written in the advertising web page: "This new instrument includes a stupendous number of presets and waveforms, covering all models of the series: WAVESTATION, WAVESTATION EX, WAVESTATION A/D, and WAVESTATION SR. The six option PCM and program cards that were highly acclaimed by users at the time, as well as the KLC card that was newly added with the KORG Legacy Collection, are also included for a total of seven, bringing the total to more than 1,500 preset sounds, more than 700 waveforms, and 55 effects, and giving you virtually infinite possibilities for creating sounds."

Here is what's written in the manual: "In total, there are 550 performances, 385 patches, 352 wave sequences, and 484 waves on the 11 internal cards (internal memory). Including the contents that can be purchased (CARD 1–6, KLC 1), there are a total of 1,050 performances, 735 patches, 672 wave sequences, and 780 waves that can be used."

The facts: What is useable as "sound" for playing purposes within Wavestations are the Performances. So, in fact, the number of USEABLE sounds we can have, according to the manual, is 1.050 - WHICH IS NOT MORE THAN 1.500 as they say (actually they aren't 1.050 but 900). They are counting with components of the sound. The expression "more than 1,500 preset sounds" is meaningless, since the Wavestation don't even use "Presets" (I wonder what are they referring to with that word). It uses Patches and Performances, while Patches are not useable "per se" but just integrated in Performances.

Just for your reference, the VST version has 900 Performances built-in (with the accompanied Patches, because each bank of Performances - 50 - must have the used Patches included in the same Bank), with some more freely available for download. In the iWavestation, we only have 550 (which means the top 11 Banks) and the rest are optional (which means they have to be bough separately).

And there is more - The total number of Performances are NOT 1.050 but 900 (18 Banks, each with 50 Performances - exactly the same as in Wavestation VST). Nothing is said about what comes in the OS X Gadget version.

And there are people defending that we should ask for a "gadget" version to replace KLC?

[PAK]

Korg ARE sitting on their arses if this isn't really new code, but recycled and repackaged code (as it seems to be).

But it's impossible to define what "new code" means in the context you're using. The original code is from an old workstation and is at least 27 years old. The port took place to allow it to run on Intel. As well as the Linux work on their Oasys hardware, someone else would've been assigned to take that same code and turn it into the Windows/Mac plugin.

All that work took place 15 years ago, and the person who did it is long gone from Korg. Since that point they've maintained these instruments in "bug fix" mode. Some of it could be issues with code structure and documentation. But a more likely reason is just the age of the code (15+ years), and the effort required to actually change and update it. They have to weigh that against likely sales, and the fact that they aren't even bothering with the Windows platform (for new products) tells its own story.

Anyway, at some point it's easier just to take the base code and start new. So, when time came to port the instruments to ARM, they've based a new Mac desktop version around that work. So it'll contain the same underlying wavestation code, but the front end GUI, and how it maps to that code, is clearly new.

BTW, I checked and my assumption was correct - AFAICT Everything's there on the Milpitas version, except no "edit" button in the mixer parts. All they need to do is add this in and you'll have the full Wavestation, which iWavestation includes. The most likely reason for its exclusion was the attempt to make it into a smaller form factor GUI without too much going on in it, as other stuff (Odyssey etc) are the same as the full version. I'd agree with critcism that they should give it full editing. The work to add this will be pretty minimal compared with updating the GUI engines on their Legacy plugins, so people should tell Korg directly that they want to see them offer this.

MORE - they are disrespecting the existing users when they are selling (again) what they already have, presented as new things, while the existing products are being left on their own.

They're left on their own for a reason - They are a commercial company and don't see money on the Windows side. Given Rolands track record, it'd be a brave person who'd bet they'll still be updating their plugins in 15 years time Sure, you can give some examples like U-He, but I think Korg is doing ok compared to most companies in their sort of position. Better than Native Instruments and some of their old plugins, for example. Better than Steinberg. Better than..

Like I said, if people want to see updated GUI's etc, there's more chance asking Korg to include any missing functionality in Gadget, since they've already done most of the work there.

[mholloway]

wow, fmr, you need..... well you need a lot of things, really. but maybe most of all you need to just smoke a phat one and ask yourself why you're posting detailed Preset Quantity comparisons that nobody except you gives a shit about, or why you are posting about facts in bold font in some rallying cry for a battle literally nobody but you is fighting. so their ad copy is off by a hundred presets, technically speaking. Call the Preset Police!! It's a Korg Conspiracy! Yeesh.

Korg Legacy is ancient software. It's nice that it still works. I was pleased when it went 64 bit years ago. They are focused on Gadget now, that is massively obvious to anyone paying attention. try not to lose any more sleep over it, K?

[fmr]

wow, fmr, you need..... well you need a lot of things, really. but maybe most of all you need to just smoke a phat one and ask yourself why you're posting detailed Preset Quantity comparisons that nobody except you gives a shit about, or why you are posting about facts in bold font in some rallying cry for a battle literally nobody but you is fighting. so their ad copy is off by a hundred presets, technically speaking. Call the Preset Police!! It's a Korg Conspiracy! Yeesh.

Korg Legacy is ancient software. It's nice that it still works. I was pleased when it went 64 bit years ago. They are focused on Gadget now, that is massively obvious to anyone paying attention. try not to lose any more sleep over it, K?

Well, yes, I need to rest over this now Let's hope someday Korg will wake up and start taking people more seriously. Or maybe I am just an ET that needs to "phone home" by now.

But you have to admit that they are doing false advertising, and even failing in a basic thing like summing arthmetics.

[fmr]

Given Rolands track record, it'd be a brave person who'd bet they'll still be updating their plugins in 15 years time Sure, you can give some examples like U-He, but I think Korg is doing ok compared to most companies in their sort of position. Better than Native Instruments and some of their old plugins, for example.

Yes, I can agree with you on this

Like I said, if people want to see updated GUI's etc, there's more chance asking Korg to include any missing functionality in Gadget, since they've already done most of the work there.

Or just release their iInstruments (iM1, iWavestation, iMonoPoly, etc.) as Mac/Windows versions, with upgrade paths for the existing users

[PAK]

Or just release their iInstruments (iM1, iWavestation, iMonoPoly, etc.) as Mac/Windows versions, with upgrade paths for the existing users

Yep, even better. The work is also already done on the Mac side, so all they need to do is either put the remaining bits in Gadget or offer them individually - as they do on iOS. On the iOS side Gadget detects standalone synths and adds them, so you don't buy twice.

I'm not sure that they'll do a Windows version though. Even on the Mac they've clearly decided that less sales at a higher price ($300) will make them more than selling the plugins individually. It would be a nice gesture to offer Mac users upgraded versions of the Legacy plugins though, since the bulk of that work has already taken place with Gadget. I wonder how much of them not doing it would be them not wanting to anger Windows users If you're optimistic they might also just be waiting until they have Windows versions ready too.. Either way, it'd be nice to see them do a bit more with that work on the desktop side of things.

[waiting man]

Korg aren’t sitting on their arses because they are very active with new software development. Including Gadget and several iOS synths.

Most of the standalone iOS synths lack basic midi implementations, sadly. Which doesn't mean they aren't on a rise, but I wonder...
Still feels to me they hire developers for a week and then fingercrossed for months.

[EvilDragon]

Still feels to me they hire developers for a week and then fingercrossed for months.

No, that's Waldorf

[Sparky77]

Its good to see Roland is still updating these.

[ATN69]

I bought the legacy without knowing if there was a demo. I could not find any way to demo it, so I relied on youtube and other channels to figure out how they sounded, etc. Once I bought and installed them I found that they constantly crashed in FL Studio 11. I contacted Korg to get some support and even though I bought the legacy from the Korg web shop I eventually got information that I had to go to my local dealer and agent for Korg here in Hong Kong to get support ..didn't make any sense what so ever.

So I contacted Tom Lee music here in Hong Kong who is Korg rep here. After a couple of calls to them they promised to look into it and get back to me. A few reminders later I just gave up. I mean, why would Tom Lee music shop even bother with this since I actually didn't buy the legacy license from them?!
As a result from this experience I don't use the legacy much.

I also contacted ImageLine about this as well but they said they didn't have access to the legacy and couldn't even test it. I been lucky because later updates of FL Studio seemed to have had a positive impact. The 64-bit version of legacy is now reasonably stable in FL Studio 12.

I know they are still selling the legacy as it is and that's fine, but don't count on getting support if you ever need it, at least that's my experience.

[waiting man]

Still feels to me they hire developers for a week and then fingercrossed for months.

No, that's Waldorf

Well, Roland has been mentioned too, so we have the holy trinity of hardware companies effing up on software.

[fallacy]

Can I take this topic in a slightly different direction and ask if anyone is in much of a hurry to update to High Sierra? As far as I know it's going to break any synths using the Carbon framework as it has been made obsolete. I don't know which of my synths use this but I do know I have one foot in yesteryear with ReFX Vanguard and Hypersonic 2, which I believe are 'hanging by a thread' as they are, with 32Lives having them on 'life support' right now...

Vanguard I think I'll be okay without, though it will render some older projects useless - but I do like Hypersonic 2 still... To give it up is the same as giving up an old ROMpler I suppose. And they still fetch good $$$ for a reason.

Perhaps I need to convert the latter to sample libraries?