Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator for modular

[lnikj]

Why wasn't there a browser built in?

FWIW, the 3 other Softube plug-ins I have lack preset browsers too.

Yeah I just think they had no experience with them, up to Heartbeat they were mainly a mastering fx company - generally presets are not used or needed much so wasn't a priority. But with instruments it's different and they should have realised that.

Best theory so far.

[vortico]

Wishful thinking, or eureka moment ?

You're essentially suggesting that the software produce a semi-modular (pre-patched) synthesizer out of the patchable modular. Computationally, there is no difference between the two in the time it takes to calculate voltages at the outputs, because the computer doesn't care whether the cables are permanent in the back or temporary in the front. It still needs to trace the path that voltage follows to get to the output in either case. Repatching a virtual modular takes 1 microsecond of "rebuilding the semi-modular", so your idea of "freezing" with a button is effectively done every time you patch/unpatch a cable.

You could bring the idea further and actually recompile machine code to follow the path of the cables, but this only saves you N or 2N pointer dereferences, where N is the number of cables. Even with cache misses, which only take a few nanoseconds, with a hundred cables at 44.1kHz, you'd only save yourself a fraction of 1% CPU.

Urs pointed out that his synthesizers compute separate voices across multiple threads, which is a much more reasonable application of multi-core processors.

I am currently researching methods of partitioning individual modules into multiple thread pools in order to achieve multi-thread modular, which will work with the 1-sample shift method of modular synthesizer emulation that Softube Modular probably uses. It may be possible, but it won't be a trivial number-of-cores speedup multipler. Multi-threading isn't simply a matter of developing software in a certain year. Sometimes it takes some truly clever tricks and lots of nasty code.

Disclaimer: I'm the developer of VCV Rack.

[cturner]

I would imagine that the various conversations about Max/MSP and it's [~poly] object would add further depth to this design question.

[scook]

Why wasn't there a browser built in?

FWIW, the 3 other Softube plug-ins I have lack preset browsers too.

Yeah I just think they had no experience with them, up to Heartbeat they were mainly a mastering fx company - generally presets are not used or needed much so wasn't a priority. But with instruments it's different and they should have realised that.

Of course, Heartbeat has no preset manager either. I do not believe the purpose of the plug-ins is the reason rather it is the platform in which the plug-ins run. UAD has a build-in preset manager in its toolbar so not having a preset manager is only an issue when creating plug-ins that run natively in a DAW.

[kiezum]

Here is my first encounter to Softube Buchla 259e. Nice addition to Modular. (btw I'm new to youtubing)

[wagtunes]

Sounds great to me.

Softube Modular Buchla 259e Twisted Waveform Generator. First Look, Demo with Sounds

I gotta admit, that's wicked cool.

[Daags]

They didn't just license it, one of the Buchla engineers was part of the development (Todd Barton)

I've met Todd Barton at NAMM, I don't think he's an engineer for BEMI. He's a performer and composer who uses a lot of Buchla gear and does promotional stuff with them.

Ya, after a little googling I can see you are completely right.

I was foolish to take the frequently and over zealously enthusiastic Peter Kirn at his word ...

Softube tapped Buchla engineer Todd Barton to work on this recreation.

I have absolutely no idea why Peter Kirn would think, much less state, that Todd Barton is a Buchla engineer ... I can find absolutely no one else on the internet (via google searches) who refers to him in the same way, and certainly Todd Barton simply refers to himself as a synthesist and composer with absolutely no indication that he was even remotely involved in engineering at Buchla.

I guess we're all 'engineers' if we uses synthesizers

my bad.

at any rate, at least they got some buchla afficiando to help them nail the sound, much like Xils-Lab 'tapped' Paul Wiffen the Elka 'engineer' to help with their Synthix vsti. I can't remember if if the consensus agreed it was an authentic emulation, but it certainly turned out to be a pleasant sounding synth.

[Daags]

Wishful thinking, or eureka moment ?

You're essentially suggesting that the software produce a semi-modular (pre-patched) synthesizer out of the patchable modular. Computationally, there is no difference between the two in the time it takes to calculate voltages at the outputs, because the computer doesn't care whether the cables are permanent in the back or temporary in the front. It still needs to trace the path that voltage follows to get to the output in either case. Repatching a virtual modular takes 1 microsecond of "rebuilding the semi-modular", so your idea of "freezing" with a button is effectively done every time you patch/unpatch a cable.

You could bring the idea further and actually recompile machine code to follow the path of the cables, but this only saves you N or 2N pointer dereferences, where N is the number of cables. Even with cache misses, which only take a few nanoseconds, with a hundred cables at 44.1kHz, you'd only save yourself a fraction of 1% CPU.

Urs pointed out that his synthesizers compute separate voices across multiple threads, which is a much more reasonable application of multi-core processors.

I am currently researching methods of partitioning individual modules into multiple thread pools in order to achieve multi-thread modular, which will work with the 1-sample shift method of modular synthesizer emulation that Softube Modular probably uses. It may be possible, but it won't be a trivial number-of-cores speedup multipler. Multi-threading isn't simply a matter of developing software in a certain year. Sometimes it takes some truly clever tricks and lots of nasty code.

Disclaimer: I'm the developer of VCV Rack.

Thank you for that detailed and informative response.

It reminds me of the Nord Modular synths .... a single patch can only ever be as complex as a single DSP can power, so the advantage of extra DSP hardware was polyphony or multi-timbrality - not more power for single patches.

I'm very optimistic about the VCV Rack ... particularly in terms of its open nature, and what business models may develop from that in the future.

[DrGonzo]

Well, I wasn't expecting prices to be THIS insane. I mean the initial extra modules weren't near this much money. In fact, the 3 Intellijel modules together are only $130 combined.

I don't want to sound overly cynical but I see this trend everywhere these days. Slap a huge price on something and when you make a sale it will feel like you are doing the best deal ever.

/C

[Daags]

Well, I wasn't expecting prices to be THIS insane. I mean the initial extra modules weren't near this much money. In fact, the 3 Intellijel modules together are only $130 combined.

I don't want to sound overly cynical but I see this trend everywhere these days. Slap a huge price on something and when you make a sale it will feel like you are doing the best deal ever.

/C

what I find particularly galling is this 'derp derp, eurorack is expensive and piecemeal so like, derp derp, it's ok when the virtual version is the same' ....

sorry but no. I'll quantify value for money by comparing like with like, i.e vsti with vsti .... $100 (regular price) for a virtual oscillator is insane and I won't be supporting this kind of model (and I knew, and warned, from the get-go that this is where Softube Modular was headed)

[wagtunes]

If I'm not mistaken, didn't they release a resonator module prior to this one? Didn't get that either.

[christian f.]

if we're talking commercial 4x4 techno (think snare rushes and woooooshes to build up to a drop, and lyrics like 'put your hands in the air'), which I think we are .... the assertions made here by Christian F re: softube Modular vs ni Reaktor 6 really are horse manure, and the onus is naturally on him to substantiate what he's saying especially given the manner in which he said it. Following up with a 'ya, well, that's just like ... my opinion man' is super weak.

carry on ...

Hahah , in the first line you clearly give away that you obviously have no clue what Techno even is.
Let alone Berlin style Techno.

It kind of sounds like my grandpa describing the latest EDM hit on the radio

[shroom81]

Softube Modular is in my experience the softsynth that requires the least amount of post processing to sound nice, fat and analog it also sit's really well in a mix.
The saturation of the Vca's puts some dedicated saturation plugins to shame.

And if you for example zoom in on a kick drum made with it that has been recorded to audio you can see each and every hit is a little bit different then the others just like with real analog synths.

The filters also have that squelchy screaming resonance that real analogue filters have, only The Drop and RePro-1 can compete with it imo, but I still favor Modular's.

Reaktor is very nice but it can't compete at all with Softube Modular for making banging Techno straight out of the synth.

[sl1200mk2]

Not a cheap module, but but after trying the demo I like the sounds. I could listen to that drone preset for hours! Hard to pass up the JRRShop discount on top of the intro price. I don't see it going lower than that anytime soon and I think it's fair enough, but obviously a lot of other people don't and that's fine. The market will dictate price eventually. Overall, happy with Modular, it sounds great and has kept me off the modular hardware bug for now.

[experimental.crow]

referenced earlier in this thread by lnikj :

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/r ... how/11077/



many thanks to trevor gavilan



From the huge messy reaktor user library of user created modules that all look, behave and sound the same.