Touch screen profile - bugs & feature requests

[antic604]

I'm using Bitwig on a Surface Pro 4 but 95% of the time this is a normal keyboard, trackpad + MIDI controller workflow. But it happens when I can't be bothered to set the things up and I use it in a dedicated 'Touch' profile. I'd like to collect a list of bugs / issues and feature requests to send to support, so if anyone could chime in with their feedback I'd appreciate it!

While I hugely appreciate Bitwig for even considering this and taking the touch integration much further than any other DAW I know, it's still not without its faults. For now I got this:

- radial interface is too small and - to make it worse - the outer ring requires using second input / finger, because you can continuously swipe only to the inner ring; to help with that, there should be a) an option to set the size of radial menu separately from the size of interface itself, b) users should be able to set up whether they're left- or right-handed, so that the 2nd ring options appear on the 'other' side, because how it is now - I'm right handed - if I touch a clip with right hand's finger most of the additional options show up to the right, right under my palm so I either have equilibristicly pick the option blindly with my left hand or I have to remember to use left hand to touch the clip in first place, but then I have to alter between hands depending on the options I need for particular element - whether they show on the left or right side,

- touch interface doesn't support both pen and fingers at the same time (might be a Windows constraint?) - not that I'd use the pen often, because I think it doesn't suit music making

- you can't access track automation from the arranger page, which is needed for long automations spanning several clips; instead you need to go to edit where there's a very small (it's resizeable, but it's difficult to do that with finger) window to work on it and - to make things worse - you can only draw the automation, as there's no option to do lines & curves like with a mouse,

- most faders - mixer, sends - are not resizeable, which makes them really cumbersome to use,

- you can't reset the maximum dB reading under the metters by touching it,

- I couldn't find a "copy to all layers" option for Drum Machine anywhere, which is there in 'normal' interface,

- navigating through your project using the 'tree' in top left corner is pretty cumbersome; it's OK when you have a lot of tracks, but for smaller projects simple up/down arrows would be much faster to jump to previous/next track (I believe it was there in 1.x?), also the 'drawer' pops up in the arranger panel in ARR view, which makes it confusing as to which one should be used, as the one in panel doesn't expand e.g. to reveal tracks within group, although it can be used to get back to group level once you got lower using the main 'tree'

- on screen keyboards are great, but we could use a scales view like in Push 2 or Launchpad Pro, where only the keys belonging to chosen scale & root would be visible - this could be somehow linked to the Diatonic Transposer device,

- [ADDED] in 2.0 the bar where you change views was moved up, whereas it was more convenient on the left-hand side, because one could change the views or tracks with a thumb,

- [ADDED] in 2.0 the option to have both clips and arranger in ARR view was removed and it was useful - let the user decide if they're able to feasibly use it on their screen (https://www.bitwig.com/en/15/bitwig_1_3/surface.html)

- [ADDED] it would be great if some kind of performance panel / screen was added, where we could map/link several macros, switches, sliders, drum pads and X/Y pads from across the project and tracks in one place, to control several parameters from different tracks at once

- [ADDED] there's no way to enter exact numeric values of parameters, like you would clicking a knob/fader with Ctrl

[Taika-Kim]

I tried using BW with a Surface Pro 3 for a while, and this is not even a bug... I even don't have that big fingers, but editing anything was a pain in the ass since the UI was just too small. Piano roll editing was torture with fingers, changing note position, length, or even getting them to the right place to begin with... Too many UI items in the side menus toi close to each othet, etc. I thought it might be better with a pen, but I didn't have one.

One specific thing: it's impossible to select a clip for inspection in the launcher with fingers without restarting it. Caused some problems with my live sets. Maybe they changed it, I sent already feedback about my experience.

Also BPM could not be dragged up much, since the counter is placed on top of the screen.

I ended up selling the Surface (which I got for BW and my live sets anyway), since I started to hate the way everything was glued together and made unserviceable... I'd still like to try BW on a Surface Studio.

[antic604]

I tried using BW with a Surface Pro 3 for a while ... I ended up selling the Surface (which I got for BW and my live sets anyway), since I started to hate the way everything was glued together and made unserviceable... I'd still like to try BW on a Surface Studio.

Were you using the Tablet profile, though?

https://www.bitwig.com/en/15/bitwig_1_3/surface.html

Sounds like you haven't, because for most of the options it's really well thought out and the size is not an issue (and you can always adjust scaling to your liking and/or fingers).

[antic604]

/double post/

[Taika-Kim]

Of course I was using the tablet profile, I had a terrible time with it. But I think the UI was changed a lot in V2? My experience was with V1.

[antic604]

Of course I was using the tablet profile, I had a terrible time with it. But I think the UI was changed a lot in V2? My experience was with V1.

It was, but I'm not 100% sure if it's for the better - see some of my (added) points above

[Phil B]

Thanks for doing this. I've just started experimenting with touch on a surface pro so don't really have much to add. But I will say that I do think the pen is very useful, especially when trying to grab knobs on devices. Makes me feel like I'm sketching sound!

As a feature request (unless I'm missing something): I'd love a set of big XY controllers (with pressure if using pen?) too instead of just the touch grid keyboard, which I don't think I'd use live. Plus some way to use them to modulate devices

[antic604]

Thanks for doing this. I've just started experimenting with touch on a surface pro so don't really have much to add. But I will say that I do think the pen is very useful, especially when trying to grab knobs on devices. Makes me feel like I'm sketching sound!

Yeah, initially I thought it's gonna be fun as well, but since touch & pen don't work together, it becomes really cumbersome if you have to put the pen away, then pick it up, and on and on. It's fun to draw automations with it, but it would be much better - at least IMO - if we could actually also do lines and curves, instead of just drawing.

As a feature request (unless I'm missing something): I'd love a set of big XY controllers (with pressure if using pen?) too instead of just the touch grid keyboard, which I don't think I'd use live. Plus some way to use them to modulate devices

Thanks, will add that to the last point about performance panel!

[Kung VU]

Hello, I am using the touch profile and agree that the idea is great but needs some more love. The biggest problems IMO are:

• The clip brace can only be set via the clip menu, where swiping to the correct value is cumbersome. It works best by swiping on the small values instead of complete bars.
• There is no way of editing micro pitch, a well belove feature of mine, via the touch GUI. You have to use the mouse, which means attaching the keyboard in my case…
• Moving midi notes without accidentally entering new notes is a pain in the ass. One suggestion. Since windows handles the pen different from fingers, lets make use of this and enter new notes only per pen. Swiping up and down while holding should enter velocity. Once entered use the fingers to manipulate start time, end time and position etc.
• I would like to have access to the devices in all views. I don't like that i always have to go to play mode for that.
• Please allow access to the metronome volume, which is always too loud or silent. It's inconvinient that function for record setup is nested in a submenu. Same goes for record quantization btw.
• I set up windows like shown in some online tutorials but still the performance of the keyboard or worse the drum pads is delayed alot. It's impossible to play drums accurately even with all other tracks disabled and record quantization engaged. I ended up not using the drum pads at all.

I guess that's most of my points.

[misteraudio]

Good Idea to compile all ideas here.

The new Tablet/Studio view mode is great but one simple thing I instantly noticed was the missing browser in *tablet * view and no icon to activate it. Maybe I missed it but a proper *tablet*- and complete *studio* screen would be appreciated. Each window with all the options to set it up for whatever purpose.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I want to be able to use the pen without getting the touch dial. It doesn't make sense to get a dial requiring two touches when you can’t do two touches with a pen. Pen should act like a mouse.

[Taika-Kim]

I think it's a bad idea to make any function accessible by pen only, me for instance didn't even have one with my Surface.

The biggest problem for me was definitely using the piano roll view, placing, editing and removing notes accurately enough was almost impossible IMO.

[Kung VU]

I think it's a bad idea to make any function accessible by pen only, me for instance didn't even have one with my Surface.
The biggest problem for me was definitely using the piano roll view, placing, editing and removing notes accurately enough was almost impossible IMO.

That is exactly the reason why I would like them to be separated. I understand your argument though.
One idea: Adding a switch button to choose between entering and editing notes. Currently the problem is. Using pinch gestures to zoom in an out will lead often to entering unwanted notes. When you try to get rid of them by double clicking you often add furher unwanted notes. So end up using the radial menu to select all these notes so you are able to delete them.
After all this you are back to zooming in/out again and did not yet accomplish anything. So this time more carefully… oh nooo, another unwanted note. Very annoying.
I suggested using the pen instead but a switch button could also work. Choose editing and use pinching and swiping gestures with two fingers in oder to navigating to the wanted location. Change to enter mode and enter some notes. When you enter a note holding and swiping should allow to set a velocity in that moment. Swiping to the right should elongate the note smoothly or at least in the grit settings steps. Switch back to editing mode and select a note by pressing it. Now you can move the note, copy it up and down to create chords, change start and end of the notes and values for pressure, aftertouch and the like. All without having to fear to enter any unwanted notes in that process.

Just an idea. One could probably come up with a nicer more intuitive way of doing this but my point it. Since every one thinks using the piano roll is fiddly it should be reworked.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I want to be able to use the pen without getting the touch dial. It doesn't make sense to get a dial requiring two touches when you can’t do two touches with a pen. Pen should act like a mouse.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I think it's a bad idea to make any function accessible by pen only, me for instance didn't even have one with my Surface.

The biggest problem for me was definitely using the piano roll view, placing, editing and removing notes accurately enough was almost impossible IMO.

That’s not what I’m suggesting. Currently there are things that can only be done with touch, and that don’t work at all with a pen because it requires multiple simultaneous touches. I just want the pen to work. You can’t use the touch dial with a pen so why does it come up when using a pen? I just want to drag the notes to change the length like with a mouse.

The irony of all this touch stuff is that they killed the ability to use the pen, which is far more useful. Other DAWs that don’t have touch support are actually easier with a pen. I really wish they would sort this out. Last I tried using it in non tablet mode and it stil brought up the touch dial. Is that still the case? Obviously it shouldn’t use touch controls in another profile.