Loom II has landed!

[Scrubbing Monkeys]

I think AIR is missing a real opportunity here. The products were great. They are simply dated. Spend the effort and be top tier.

[jacqueslacouth]

Anybody here ever spent $60 for 129 new presets at reFX?

Personally I have found AIR instruments to be incredible value and while I have not upgraded (yet), I find Loom to be just fine on my 5K screen (and my eyes are absolute crud). Sure, the upgrade appears expensive in comparison to the sale price of the AIP bundles, but in the bigger scheme of things, not so much. For me (and I emphasise, ME) I couldn't give a fig about browsers as I virtually never find what I am looking for through attribute tagging, I guess I have different interpretations of how sounds should be described.

And a final thought, Simon has been one of the most helpful company reps I have dealt with over many years of using music software and he has always gone out of his way to help with any issues I have had with AIR.

[aMUSEd]

I don't have any problem with your linking to the pack, just with pretending it's only free for a limited period to use as leverage for selling your own stuff - do you not see the difference?

This makes sense apologies, it wasn’t our intention for that to across that way we will improve the messaging the core messaging is that the item it’s self is the time limited promotion. Thank you for the feedback. It’s a great pack and deserves attention.

Thankyou for listening.

[Brittlestem]

I think AIR is missing a real opportunity here. The products were great. They are simply dated. Spend the effort and be top tier.

Here's a list of FR I made for AIR's Transfuser, back in *2009*.
None have been implemented.
If you accept that WYSIWYG with AIR and that they have zero interest in actually implementing user requests, you're fine.



"For anyone who's interested in Transfuser, here's a list I made in 2009 of desperately needed fixes, none of which, AFAIK, made it into the $99 1.3 update:

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=231890&page=3

Digidesign UK Product Specialist

And...the list Gordan made:

1. The ability to drag'n'drop/swap around Drum Pad FX.

2. The option to make Drum Pad send fx *post* volume/pan - so lowering a Drum Pad's volume also lowers it's send FX and changing a Pads pan setting is reflected in the Send FX.

3. The ability to drag a wave file from the Recorder into a User Audio folder in the Browser.
This makes the inability to save your own Drum Pad creations slightly less painful to workaround.

4. The ability to save your own cool Drum Pad creations - is there no
way that a wholly self-content file can be saved with FX/envelopes etc?

5. Most importantly, the ability to increase the Sequencer Pane to allow all Drum Lanes to be seen. I can't emphasize how crippling it is to not be able to see all the Sequencer Lanes at the same time.

6. Ditto using slices, trying to line up the desired slice to the right step is very fiddly with the present pane size.

7. Audition Browser samples *with* Insert/Track/Master FX. I very often find a cool snare only to find that with enhancers/compressor/maximizer on the FX it sounds completely different.
Also audition Browser samples in situ ie temporarily replacing the destination Drum Pad as the Drum Seq.

8. An option that when you select a slice it sounds/plays. Removes the need to audition it via the vertical piano of the piano roll and then hope that you've selected the right slice.

9. Being able to drag along a Sequencer Lane with the pencil tool, creating or deleting notes as you can in the Transfuser effect "Gater" would *greatly* speed up writing.

10. Also, having the most frequently used commands such as Copy/Paste current bar, Undo/redo, *deselect* brought out onto the GUI would, again really speed up the workflow.

11. The ability to mute/solo the different FX lanes in the Gater effect.

12. A Mario-like function for use with the gater- ie randomize option for each lane.

12. Mono/Stereo output button on each Drum Pad.

13. Back and forward arrows for Drum Synth Kits (above the drum pads) and for the FX presets.

14. Reverse and Note Repeat (a la GURU for glitchy effects) pages in the Drum Seq.

15. Copy and paste Track Automation Lanes. Copy Automation Lanes steps 1-16 to 17-32 and vice vers

17. Ability to save *User* FX presets. Also, FX "init" presets. (for Gater, for example.)


18. Pressing Record in Transfuser and then Play in Pro Tools starts
Transfuser Recording - with subsequent trigger notes from a MIDI region change the pattern in Transfuser - enabling one to play/record into Transfuser while listening to the whole Pro Tools session.
ie "wait for note" Record mode with proper pattern change.

19. Also, being able to play/Rec a pattern when it has no data in it - at present you have to draw in a note before it'll play.

19. Create cresendo works based on the current Page selected ie
if filter is selected then it creates a filtered crescendo, ditto pitch etc

20. Altering the settings on the Pitch etc page using the mouse is set to the slower setting, currently *always* requires a key modifier to enter the inevitable small change.

21. Drag and drop FX *exchanges* them rather than overwrites.

21. A Fine Tune page or alternative setting for the Pitch page..

22. Selecting or "highlighting" some lanes and choosing "copy current bar" and then pasting into a new bar *shouldn't* overwrite unselected lanes - thereby allowing one to copy and paste different lanes into different patterns and combine the best of both.

23. Right-clicking with the pencil tool deletes a node (ie slicer pan node) or note.

24. Option to turn off scroll while recording.

25. If left-clicking a lane in a Drum-Synth "Selects" all on that lane can we have right-clicking "Deselects" all - much, much easier than constantly having to go to the drop-down menu.

26. Ability to save Drum Pad Send FX and Insert FX set-ups.

27. In the Drum Synth display for each sample, having the wave overlayed the pitch/amp/filter thereby making sound design much easier.

28. At present it's impossible to draw nodes in the Drum Pads pitch/amp window in the *upper* far 3rd of the screen where the samples name is - and therefore deleting is also difficult if the zoom places a node in that area.

28. The drag'drop of Drum Pads has been unexpectedly removed with no explanation. The proposed solution unfortunately doesn't copy the old Pads pain-stakingly tweaked FX or sends - which also of course cannot be saved and reloaded into a new Pad.

A more elegant solution would be to have an option on the Tool(?) page which "Enables Drum Pads to be *swapped*" thereby also removing the danger of accidently copying over an existing Drum Pad.


29. The ability to copy and paste a single Drum Seq Lane into another single Lane on multiple or single pages- ie doubling up a kick Lane at the moment including all the velocity/pan/time information seems impossible, ditto trying out a Lane with a different sound etc.

30. Sample start and end midi learnable/Track Automation Lane usable

31. In the Drum Synth be able to load new samples leaving the destination Pad's FX and enevelopes intact.

32. Gater FX - copy/exchange/swap pages 1 and 2"

[c_voltage]

So, tried install v2 trial, really it's replace v1 after install to the same place, since has the same dll name (and i guess has the same plugin ID). That not very well.

Since it's perfectly backwards compatible, that is just fine as far as I'm concerned.

The Logic behind this was our Beta Testers requested we do this to avoid breaking existing projects as there is no need to run Loom 1 and Loom 2 on the same system.

Although yes, there is sense. Just wanted to compare face to face both versions without extra movements. Well ok.

[c_voltage]

30. Sample start and end midi learnable/Track Automation Lane usable

That was my request for Transfuser too , it's really would be a great addition.

[sbangs_air]

Here's a list of FR I made for AIR's Transfuser, back in *2009*.
None have been implemented.
If you accept that WYSIWYG with AIR and that they have zero interest in actually implementing user requests, you're fine.



"For anyone who's interested in Transfuser, here's a list I made in 2009 of desperately needed fixes, none of which, AFAIK, made it into the $99 1.3 update:

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=231890&page=3

Digidesign UK Product Specialist

And...the list Gordan made:

1. The ability to drag'n'drop/swap around Drum Pad FX.

2. The option to make Drum Pad send fx *post* volume/pan - so lowering a Drum Pad's volume also lowers it's send FX and changing a Pads pan setting is reflected in the Send FX.

3. The ability to drag a wave file from the Recorder into a User Audio folder in the Browser.
This makes the inability to save your own Drum Pad creations slightly less painful to workaround.

4. The ability to save your own cool Drum Pad creations - is there no
way that a wholly self-content file can be saved with FX/envelopes etc?

5. Most importantly, the ability to increase the Sequencer Pane to allow all Drum Lanes to be seen. I can't emphasize how crippling it is to not be able to see all the Sequencer Lanes at the same time.

6. Ditto using slices, trying to line up the desired slice to the right step is very fiddly with the present pane size.

7. Audition Browser samples *with* Insert/Track/Master FX. I very often find a cool snare only to find that with enhancers/compressor/maximizer on the FX it sounds completely different.
Also audition Browser samples in situ ie temporarily replacing the destination Drum Pad as the Drum Seq.

8. An option that when you select a slice it sounds/plays. Removes the need to audition it via the vertical piano of the piano roll and then hope that you've selected the right slice.

9. Being able to drag along a Sequencer Lane with the pencil tool, creating or deleting notes as you can in the Transfuser effect "Gater" would *greatly* speed up writing.

10. Also, having the most frequently used commands such as Copy/Paste current bar, Undo/redo, *deselect* brought out onto the GUI would, again really speed up the workflow.

11. The ability to mute/solo the different FX lanes in the Gater effect.

12. A Mario-like function for use with the gater- ie randomize option for each lane.

12. Mono/Stereo output button on each Drum Pad.

13. Back and forward arrows for Drum Synth Kits (above the drum pads) and for the FX presets.

14. Reverse and Note Repeat (a la GURU for glitchy effects) pages in the Drum Seq.

15. Copy and paste Track Automation Lanes. Copy Automation Lanes steps 1-16 to 17-32 and vice vers

17. Ability to save *User* FX presets. Also, FX "init" presets. (for Gater, for example.)


18. Pressing Record in Transfuser and then Play in Pro Tools starts
Transfuser Recording - with subsequent trigger notes from a MIDI region change the pattern in Transfuser - enabling one to play/record into Transfuser while listening to the whole Pro Tools session.
ie "wait for note" Record mode with proper pattern change.

19. Also, being able to play/Rec a pattern when it has no data in it - at present you have to draw in a note before it'll play.

19. Create cresendo works based on the current Page selected ie
if filter is selected then it creates a filtered crescendo, ditto pitch etc

20. Altering the settings on the Pitch etc page using the mouse is set to the slower setting, currently *always* requires a key modifier to enter the inevitable small change.

21. Drag and drop FX *exchanges* them rather than overwrites.

21. A Fine Tune page or alternative setting for the Pitch page..

22. Selecting or "highlighting" some lanes and choosing "copy current bar" and then pasting into a new bar *shouldn't* overwrite unselected lanes - thereby allowing one to copy and paste different lanes into different patterns and combine the best of both.

23. Right-clicking with the pencil tool deletes a node (ie slicer pan node) or note.

24. Option to turn off scroll while recording.

25. If left-clicking a lane in a Drum-Synth "Selects" all on that lane can we have right-clicking "Deselects" all - much, much easier than constantly having to go to the drop-down menu.

26. Ability to save Drum Pad Send FX and Insert FX set-ups.

27. In the Drum Synth display for each sample, having the wave overlayed the pitch/amp/filter thereby making sound design much easier.

28. At present it's impossible to draw nodes in the Drum Pads pitch/amp window in the *upper* far 3rd of the screen where the samples name is - and therefore deleting is also difficult if the zoom places a node in that area.

28. The drag'drop of Drum Pads has been unexpectedly removed with no explanation. The proposed solution unfortunately doesn't copy the old Pads pain-stakingly tweaked FX or sends - which also of course cannot be saved and reloaded into a new Pad.

A more elegant solution would be to have an option on the Tool(?) page which "Enables Drum Pads to be *swapped*" thereby also removing the danger of accidently copying over an existing Drum Pad.


29. The ability to copy and paste a single Drum Seq Lane into another single Lane on multiple or single pages- ie doubling up a kick Lane at the moment including all the velocity/pan/time information seems impossible, ditto trying out a Lane with a different sound etc.

30. Sample start and end midi learnable/Track Automation Lane usable

31. In the Drum Synth be able to load new samples leaving the destination Pad's FX and enevelopes intact.

32. Gater FX - copy/exchange/swap pages 1 and 2"

Thank you for this I will pass it on to the team as we are currently reviewing the line up.

Over the years AIR has had serveral owners (Digi, M-Audio, Avid and now inMusic) with different goals.

Today AIR’s aim is to make music accessible for all with full cross compatibility and platforms such as VIP developed in partnership with Akai to improve the experience for users or the new eleven powered Headrush system.

[sbangs_air]

Anybody here ever spent $60 for 129 new presets at reFX?

Personally I have found AIR instruments to be incredible value and while I have not upgraded (yet), I find Loom to be just fine on my 5K screen (and my eyes are absolute crud). Sure, the upgrade appears expensive in comparison to the sale price of the AIP bundles, but in the bigger scheme of things, not so much. For me (and I emphasise, ME) I couldn't give a fig about browsers as I virtually never find what I am looking for through attribute tagging, I guess I have different interpretations of how sounds should be described.

And a final thought, Simon has been one of the most helpful company reps I have dealt with over many years of using music software and he has always gone out of his way to help with any issues I have had with AIR.

Thank you for your support and glad I have been able to be of service. It’s unfortunate I have been met with some of the aggressions here but do understand the feedback and take it on board . We try to go above and beyond to help customers where ever they may be posting/are.

[EvilDragon]

It's not aggression, it's disappointment.

I've nothing against you personally Simon - you're doing a great job for the title you hold. But AIR should take a look on how companies like, for instance, u-he, do things as far as listening to the userbase, and how much they add in FREE updates (Zebra 2 is about 10 years old - all of its updates were completely free and had pretty huge features implemented during its time). Somehow they manage to keep their revenue stream without cheapening themselves out in bargain sales - and we're talking about a company which is MUCH smaller than inMusic brands!

[wagtunes]

And I don't even ask for much. Just a GUI I can read easily. I don't even care about the other stuff.

[rlared]

It's not aggression, it's disappointment.

I've nothing against you personally Simon - you're doing a great job for the title you hold. But AIR should take a look on how companies like, for instance, u-he, do things as far as listening to the userbase, and how much they add in FREE updates (Zebra 2 is about 10 years old - all of its updates were completely free and had pretty huge features implemented during its time). Somehow they manage to keep their revenue stream without cheapening themselves out in bargain sales - and we're talking about a company which is MUCH smaller than inMusic brands!

I agree with your point that AIR can do things better, but I think this really isn't a reasonable comparison. AIR started with a business-to-business model by being the stock plugins for Protools. They are great synths but didn't have to be "the best".

U-he started selling direct to end-users in a competitive marketplace. They are catering towards the "top end" of the plugin market who is OK with shelling out $200 for a plugin.

I think until now, AIR has mostly collected royalties by selling work they already had completed in cheap bundles. I don't blame them for not putting in additional resources to develop those products further. But now they are finding that their products are not competitive with other products when sold individually.

So what they need to do is either sell an upgrade bundle, or change their image and develop something state-of-the-art.

That's my opinion anyway.

[Brittlestem]

It's not aggression, it's disappointment.

I've nothing against you personally Simon - you're doing a great job for the title you hold. But AIR should take a look on how companies like, for instance, u-he, do things as far as listening to the userbase, and how much they add in FREE updates (Zebra 2 is about 10 years old - all of its updates were completely free and had pretty huge features implemented during its time). Somehow they manage to keep their revenue stream without cheapening themselves out in bargain sales - and we're talking about a company which is MUCH smaller than inMusic brands!

But now they are finding that their products are not competitive with other products when sold individually.

So what they need to do is either sell an upgrade bundle, or change their image and develop something state-of-the-art.

Tha

They found that out years ago when they went from being the defacto synth and sampler alternative for Digidesign users, where they sold for inflated prices and were sloooooow to fix bugs, to going it alone and suddenly finding those same prices and complete lack of decent upgrades - hello Structure - didn't stand up in the open marketplace.
Cue massive price drops and bundle offers.
But tiny GUI's, a primitive preset browser, ignoring user FR and a complete and utter failure to cultivate a "fan base"...good luck with that.

[exmatproton]

U-he started selling direct to end-users in a competitive marketplace. They are catering towards the "top end" of the plugin market who is OK with shelling out $200 for a plugin.

U-He didn't start with "high-end" expensive synths though. Think lmtlabs, Podolski, Zoyd, Triple Cheese...
U-He's business model is just different and there really isn't any reason for AIR to stay this behind (even when not compared to U-He). Another great (imho) example is Image Line and what they did for free throughout the years.

[budweiser]

So what they need to do is either sell an upgrade bundle, or change their image and develop something state-of-the-art.

They don't have that much to do to be top of the line plugs again. The AIEP is an incredible bang for the bucks, and back in the days i happily spent something like $1k for the pro tools pack. But for todays standards, they're handicaped by to much quirks & quarks, mainly (imo) their tiny guis. Hybrid is an incredible synth (however its sound quality changed in bad, somewhere between v1.6 & 2) and Velvet is maybe the best electric piano on the market, and awfully under the radar. Strike is really good, and maybe the first one with that "complexity" feature. But it's so hard to use, even on a 27' monitor. Etc...
A gui overhaul is really needed for those plugs.
I'm 100% with Evil Dragon when he says this Loom2 is a disappointment. I was waiting for more... radical changes.

[wagtunes]

So what they need to do is either sell an upgrade bundle, or change their image and develop something state-of-the-art.

They don't have that much to do to be top of the line plugs again. The AIEP is an incredible bang for the bucks, and back in the days i happily spent something like $1k for the pro tools pack. But for todays standards, they're handicaped by to much quirks & quarks, mainly (imo) their tiny guis. Hybrid is an incredible synth (however its sound quality changed in bad, somewhere between v1.6 & 2) and Velvet is maybe the best electric piano on the market, and awfully under the radar. Strike is really good, and maybe the first one with that "complexity" feature. But it's so hard to use, even on a 27' monitor. Etc...
A gui overhaul is really needed for those plugs.
I'm 100% with Evil Dragon when he says this Loom2 is a disappointment. I was waiting for more... radical changes.

Wait, did you just say that something is hard to use on a 27" monitor?

Hey Teksonik, did you hear that? I'm not alone.