Zebra 2.8/3.0 misleading hype

[QLNE]

When features were requested that I could not possibly implement in Zebra2, I would say "let's keep that in mind for Zebra3". Which unfortunately became kind of a meme, as it propelled itself into the expectation of a relatively soon release.

[david.beholder]

I've tested yesterday Zebra 2.7 is still working and producing sounds. It's possible to incorporate it into tracks instead of 2.8/3.0

If you're not into producing tracks/writing music i.e. achieving the final result -- bad for you -- you have to join Gas Anonymous Association and complete 12 steps program.

[lunardigs]

it almost seems as if the team has decreased from 16 to 2 persons..

I worry about that a *lot*

It is however also so that the customer base went from 5000 to 40000. Which is also an 8-fold in interaction - and responsibility. This is the main reason for the man power we require. Without it I would not get to write a single line of fresh code. I'd be answering emails and fixing issues (new systems, new formats...) forever. As it stands now, I still spend most of the time fixing issues, but as a team we get *something* done, on a much more professional level than five years ago.

(gawd... the time it took me to create halfway decent renderings of Diva's knobs... glad that's taken out of my hands by someone who actually knows 3D inside out)

That's business! It's a balancing act. If you grow too fast, particular problems arise. If you grow too slow, other problems.

What's funny too, is that never in my life, until I started a business, have I had to apologize so often for offering so much to the world! Haha! ... As they say, 'no good deed goes un-punished.'

Point is, it's very easy to consume. Yet, to PRODUCE finished goods, of high quality which arise to competitive expectations, etc., is something entirely else.

[jbw]

as stated in the first post of that thread it was done out of excitement.

It was actually merely a reaction to people posting "I'll hold off my Zebra purchase until V3 comes out". So I came up with a scheme that makes buying Zebra2 more enticing than waiting for Zebra3. The reason for this can be found e.g. in the Improvements thread around that time: When features were requested that I could not possibly implement in Zebra2, I would say "let's keep that in mind for Zebra3". Which unfortunately became kind of a meme, as it propelled itself into the expectation of a relatively soon release. The Zebra3 Info thread came about to inform that this release is far away - obviously it was much further away than what even we thought at that time.

At least you're not giving out estimated time of arrivals, then not meeting those dates. I've seen developers do that, and it doesn't end well, the internet goes crazy.

As for the actual release date, Zebra 2 has plenty to tide me over. I use Zebrify on just about everything, even on my breakfast toast.

[Urs]

At least you're not giving out estimated time of arrivals, then not meeting those dates. I've seen developers do that, and it doesn't end well, the internet goes crazy.

Well, we kind of did that with Repro-5 and Zebra 2.8, which we thought were 4-6 weeks away when we presented them in April. But then the Preset Browser came along, seemed pretty mature, didn't seem like that big of a deal, and became a pretty substantial refactoring job in the aftermath. We probably should have postponed it, sent out the releases in time and saved us the trouble.

However, we would have had to fork things, which I don't like - it's more overhead later. One can't however start any refactoring job right after a release. There may be urgent matters to attend to (HZ calling with a feature request...) hence the codebase needs to be ready-to-compile for a couple of weeks. This would have stalled the preset browser and out overall development, so by stalling Z2.8 and Repro we might actually be faster in the long run...

[lnikj]

You mean HZ takes precedence over me. ME !

[Urs]

You mean HZ takes precedence over me. ME !

He's very convincing at times. Like "You know, I need this because we're rejoining the Buggles for a gig and we'll play Video Killed The Radio Star and Trevor will be there with us, and it is next Saturday and you should come too!"

IMG_5376_Snapseed.jpg

[lnikj]

I guess I'll have to let you off then. Just this once mind

[exmatproton]

You mean HZ takes precedence over me. ME !

He's very convincing at times. Like "You know, I need this because we're rejoining the Buggles for a gig and we'll play Video Killed The Radio Star and Trevor will be there with us, and it is next Saturday and you should come too!"

IMG_5376_Snapseed.jpg

Too good

[experimental.crow]

you probably met in an abandoned studio ...

[Howard]

He's very convincing at times. Like "You know, I need this because we're rejoining the Buggles for a gig and we'll play Video Killed The Radio Star and Trevor will be there with us, and it is next Saturday and you should come too!"

I also got "sidetracked" by the birthday project! My mission was to recreate the original Prophet 5 sounds in ZebraHZ. That worked out fine, but I reckon it would have been a bit easier in Repro-5

[rj0]

I'm as eager for a Zebra 3 as anyone, but when I think of how far Zebra 2.5 has come since I got it, it's pretty much already Zebra 3, compared to how different other companies make their new releases. Even more so, if you consider Zebra HZ. Hell, I'd be lying if I said I've even explored the current version fully. Who here has? In the meantime, U-he has put out a lot of other great products. Were they all for me? Nope, but I know I'm not The Market. The other products were made because they were either interesting to Urs, or profit generators or both.

Yes, "In the meantime, he has put out a lot of other great products", ... perhaps "because they were interesting or profit generators".

I think you've precisely hit the problem nail on the head.

[amillionwinters]

There are some differences between marketing driven companies and an engineering driven company.

That is some serious truth.

I work for a company that designs and develops network based storage systems, the OS, and the accompanying MAM software. Every company in this area is marketing based, and it is the most frustrating aspect of my job.

Many of the people/companies who buy these things will ask "Company A has feature 'xyz', how about you"? A lot of the time these questions refer to features that are useful only in very niche situations. But if you don't have it, you lose the sale.

This results in a feature development list that is never ending, and always expanding, and our development resources stay mostly constant. To be fair, almost all of the companies in this domain suffer this problem, and I imagine it is similar for companies in other domains.

What this often leads to is a feature being released half-baked simply so that the marketing/sales team can answer "yes".

What happens, then, is that most of the users don't even make use of the feature (good thing we spent that time developing it). The users who do eventually find out how rudimentary its implementation is, and often get angry about it because it was what sold them on the system in the first place.

The dev team then has to slow or pause development on the core parts of what the system is actually intended for to complete and/or correct the feature. In the worst cases, this can result in having to redesign the entire implementation, either because it was rushed in the first place, or because of further developments that had occurred since the feature was first implemented.

I realize this post is a little late, and a bit ranty. The OP's general sentiment just hits a sore spot, I guess.

TLDR: Please, for f**k's sake, hope that the companies who's software/hardware you use are engineering driven, and appreciate it when they are.

[werp]

I was here that fateful night when Urs announced that zebra three would be free to certain people...Alcohol may have been involved...and not on my part. :^D

[egbert]

I was here that fateful night when Urs announced that zebra three would be free to certain people...Alcohol may have been involved...and not on my part. :^D

What was it that Benjamin Franklin said? Something about beer being proof that God loves us? Yeah, that was it.