Zebra3 Info

[spunkmuffin]

Adding more operators/oscillators/envelopes will come at the expense of other aspects of the synth. It's a balancing act of features against CPU resources.

Multi-outs for envelopes...that sounds like using the ModMixer with 2 or 3 of the envelopes and 'scale sum by const'. There are heaps of weird things you can do already if you look.

The main thing that I want is to add whatever magic went into the Repro core. Whatever accounts for the very fine resolution. I don't know what it is - maybe free-running oscillators, or the audio-rate modulation? Urs knows.

Oh and the fancy new filters. And also maybe the amp envelopes...aren't they like little compressors? Oh yeah then there are the VCA Compressors...it all needs to be added and it comes at a cost. I'm glad Urs is cooking and I don't have to figure out what to put in the pot.

[jme-audio]

Yes, everything comes with a cost, but when you don't use it, there is no cost.
F.e. don't use XMF and there is no additional cpu usage for them. Same with envelopes and other stuff.

[pdxindy]

Adding more operators/oscillators/envelopes will come at the expense of other aspects of the synth. It's a balancing act of features against CPU resources.

and workflow...

Multi-outs for envelopes...that sounds like using the ModMixer with 2 or 3 of the envelopes and 'scale sum by const'. There are heaps of weird things you can do already if you look.

The ModMixer is limited and could be more intuitive. How about adding multiply, along with an included lag and quantizer!

The main thing that I want is to add whatever magic went into the Repro core. Whatever accounts for the very fine resolution. I don't know what it is - maybe free-running oscillators, or the audio-rate modulation? Urs knows.

Oh and the fancy new filters. And also maybe the amp envelopes...aren't they like little compressors? Oh yeah then there are the VCA Compressors...it all needs to be added and it comes at a cost. I'm glad Urs is cooking and I don't have to figure out what to put in the pot.

I feel complete confidence that Urs is gonna set a new standard with Z3... both with sound quality like you are talking about... plus multi-core and MPE capable and some exciting new tools.

[Urs]

Yeah, the ModMixer is a tad limited. Not sure if I wanted to add a lag to it if the function generators are functional as lags already. Also, Quantizers might not be needed as we do have ModMappers and as the current concept has scale-aware & microtunable Quantizers on voice level. We'll test this.

[jme-audio]

Adding more operators/oscillators/envelopes will come at the expense of other aspects of the synth. It's a balancing act of features against CPU resources.

and workflow...

How will the availability of more (old and new) modules will lead to a reduced workflow?

[aumordia]

Build it yourself and see.

[jme-audio]

Please show some screenshot or beta of your modular you were talking about, aumordia.
Like to see something of your design expertise.

[jme-audio]

IMO nobody has to use all modulators, so workflow is only affected by those modules that you really chose to use.

But let's address this impossible usability problem some people see, f.e. you with your see-everything-key-argument.
So say we make a DX7 like sound with 6 envelopes. As you can see in the image, in Z2 the envelopes are fitting on the screen without any problem. No reason for constant whining how everything would be destroyed by this.

[pdxindy]

Yeah, the ModMixer is a tad limited. Not sure if I wanted to add a lag to it if the function generators are functional as lags already. Also, Quantizers might not be needed as we do have ModMappers

Yeah... Mod Mappers can function as a quantizer... but it is tedious to edit. You have to add and remove steps and that changes the drawn shape and it does not automatically match the envelope nor can it be modulated... sometimes it is just nice to quantize an envelope without fuss.

[pdxindy]

Adding more operators/oscillators/envelopes will come at the expense of other aspects of the synth. It's a balancing act of features against CPU resources.

and workflow...

How will the availability of more (old and new) modules will lead to a reduced workflow?

For one thing, the list of modulators is already quite long. On my screen, maybe after 10 or so more, the list will not fit on my screen and will need to scroll... that gets annoying on other synths.

And while 6 envelopes do fit... that is assuming there are no LFO's, Mod Mappers etc. Obviously more of various modulators is going to mean more scrolling.

Also, I find as the number of modules goes up, the ability of the brain to keep track of it all gets harder.

Anyway, it is not like 6 envelopes is gonna make or break Z3... but there have been plenty of requests for more of various things. I do think additions need to be weighed against each other cause adding more of many things will for sure impact usability.

I would rather see additional flexibility with existing modules rather than more and more added. For example, adding a one shot mode on LFO's makes them also work as envelopes. No extra modules, but some extra envelopes if needed.

Plus as already discussed, there are already 8 envelopes (4 reg + 4 MSEG) plus Mod Mappers can also be envelopes. It's not like you cannot already do what you want.

[EvilDragon]

For one thing, the list of modulators is already quite long. On my screen, maybe after 10 or so more, the list will not fit on my screen and will need to scroll... that gets annoying on other synths.

Cue submenus, like the one that modmatrix has.

[pdxindy]

For one thing, the list of modulators is already quite long. On my screen, maybe after 10 or so more, the list will not fit on my screen and will need to scroll... that gets annoying on other synths.

Cue submenus, like the one that modmatrix has.

They are also a bit slower, and bit more prone to mouse miscues... obviously better than an endlessly long list...

[jme-audio]

And while 6 envelopes do fit... that is assuming there are no LFO's, Mod Mappers etc. Obviously more of various modulators is going to mean more scrolling.

Also, I find as the number of modules goes up, the ability of the brain to keep track of it all gets harder.

Then use what you like to use, what is the problem? We don't force you to use SB1 and Shape2 (just to name some modules I usually don't use) etc. You pick what you like and it's good.

I would rather see additional flexibility with existing modules rather than more and more added. For example, adding a one shot mode on LFO's makes them also work as envelopes. No extra modules, but some extra envelopes if needed.

I want an overall improved Zebra - so with better flexibility too. You can get your better LFOs. That is on my wishlist too. There is no reason to fight the envelope proposal because of this. Also making some OOP instances more doesn't take that long to code. This will not block u-he from research & development of new exciting modules. And I also think he is not in a hurry with it, when it takes a month longer then it's supposed to be like that.

[aumordia]

You want screenshots of what is, at this point, a bag of DSP glued together, so you can critique my design expertise? That's how you think this works? Good luck influencing anyone on anything, ever.

[jme-audio]

I have no intention to criticize anyones creative work.
But its pretty cheap to tell you did some design research and use that as an argument against others without showing something.