Albleton Live 10 overpriced?

[Daags]

Live 10, M4L finally integrated!

• Standard - 0 device included
• Suite - Official 10 device included

Well, okay.....

it's integrated in the same way 'operator' etc are integrated ... which is to say, integrated into the core program but you'll need a license to unlock it. I can see why this might confuse non-native english speakers ... but if english is your first language, this shouldn't be a difficult concept to wrap your head around.

[antic604]

Well, if you expect us to be psychics, then indeed logic is not your strong suit.
Be more precise and you'll be spared comments like mine.
Peace

Or maybe you can avoid jumping to conclusions. You could have asked which features I thought were missing. Instead, you chose to make assumptions.

Yes, you're right. Sorry for that I've seen enough trolls & uninformed bullshit over the last 24h and indeed I'm kinda "jumpy".

[dangayle]

I think this pretty much is the case with the gigantic user base Ableton has. It's been mature since many versions back, the users have been using it for so long it's second nature to them. Many musicians aren't that focused on features or or even like the programs re-inventing themselves- DAW is just a means to an end, not the end itself. Many here on KVR are perhaps more interested in software features and following software development than rest of the user base. This is reflected in the vast amount of tutorials for Live, they aren't so much about the program itself as they are about actual music production. This is also imo a big factor in their success.

Live is a simple DAW compared to most others, possibly all others. This results in a certain clarity and a very streamlined workflow. I for one, coming from Reaper, really value this simplicity of everything in Live, yet it has everything I need. The new features are just nice things to have (for me the browser tag system is the highlight, it allows me to combine VSTs, VST presets (Reaktor ensembles) and device chains in a favourite folder), but I wasn't really missing anything important. The GUI refresh looks great.

That said, the omission of MPE leaves me kinda baffled. While MPE controllers are still rare and expensive, I'm certain they will get very popular in the future when they get to sub 500e prices. I'll definitely grab one once the big mass producers launch their versions.

I agree with everything you just said. I LOVE Bitwig, but I make more music in Ableton. Just fire it up and start making, with very little cognitive interruption. I think I could get there with Bitwig, but it is honestly a bit more of a struggle sometimes.

Pull that mod system into Ableton, and I would never look back.

[Gamma-UT]

Yes, you're right. Sorry for that I've seen enough trolls & uninformed bullshit over the last 24h and indeed I'm kinda "jumpy".

'K

[Kinh]

To answer the original question, I dont think it's overpriced. I got live 9 for about 600 aud when it was 30% off. The upgrade is about half of that so it works out about right. Omnisphere 2 upgrade was about half it's full price and I think most vst upgrades are, arent they?

The fact this is integrated with m4l alone makes it worth it. Now we can finally use m4l and get access to lfos, envelopes, shapers and shit, making this thing fully modular rather than a DAW that still depends on 3rd party stuff. No more m4l crash.

Shit, I think this is gonna be pretty f#cking great quite personally.

[Daags]

Upgraded from Suite 8 -> Suite 9 + Suite 10 .... for 199 euro.

Seems pretty good value to me, but of course waiting until now to upgrade to LIVE 9 to reap the benefit of LIVE 10 being included makes me and others like me a bit of an outlier, not to mention I could not repeat this type of 2-for-1 strategy unless I did not upgrade again until the announcement of LIVE 12 or higher...

I would imagine for those users on live 8 who never purchased MFL the upgrade is quite the bargain. I'm not sure whether I'll bother yet, I don't really care about the synth TBH, but I have no regrets about live 9 and push. Since I don't have a push 2, the new enhancements there don't mean much to me.

What might make all the difference in the world though is how "built in" MFL actually is. What I'll probably do is skip the release party and wait for a sale, perhaps even push 3.

if you didn't already own M4L, ya, a certifiable no-brainer for sure.
I am waiting with baited breath the collective user feedback on the M4L integration .... Ableton didn't just say 'hey, it's now integrated' ... they made some bold promises about speed and cpu efficiency. To justify the claims I think that the LFO's, for example, should be running with 50% or more reduced cpu ...
if the reduction is 50% or more I'll be happy. If it's more like a 25% reduction ... I'll be disappointed, but, better than nothing. If it's more like 10% I'll have a few choice suggestions for what their marketing people can stick up their arse.

there are no doubt other benefits of LIVE fully integrating M4L, but the speed & efficiency metrics will be a big deal...


I would have picked up a PUSH 2 if the bundled-with-suite-upgrade discount was steep enough, but it only amounted to something like a 40 euro saving vs picking it up during another 20%/30% seasonal sale. I'm 'between houses' at the moment so it's easy for me to sit on this a while longer, I figure I'll just wait on PUSH 3 which I think we'll see in 2018 ... or keep my eyes peeled for an irresistible used PUSH 2 listing

[tooneba]

Live 10, M4L finally integrated!

• Standard - 0 device included
• Suite - Official 10 device included

Well, okay.....

it's integrated in the same way 'operator' etc are integrated ... which is to say, integrated into the core program but you'll need a license to unlock it. I can see why this might confuse non-native english speakers ... but if english is your first language, this shouldn't be a difficult concept to wrap your head around.

With your confidence it just shows understanding English doesn't mean you get sarcasm.

[Daags]

I was looking over the prices again last night, logged out of my account vs logged in etc...

on the one hand, the suite upgrade for me (a user since LIVE 4, and owning M4L separately) is the guts of 50% buying suite outright (a brand new user). in principle this seems too much to me, especially when so much of the value seems to be pegged on 'content' like 'sounds' and multi-sample libraries.

on the other hand, the upgrade cycle is now 4-5 years long ... and they do appear to be adding new features to the core application during that cycle (can't comment on that with too much authority, since I skipped LIVE 9 until now)

ultimately I prefer a longer upgrade cycle, so even though it's a sting at the onset, I can't really say it's overpriced. Probably the best way to get value for money if you're looking at upgrading from 9 -> 10, is to wait until about a year after the official 10 release until you upgrade, and pick it up during another seasonal sale. This time the discount may be 30%, but the real savings will be the early-adoption 1st year of bug fixing.

[Daags]

Live 10, M4L finally integrated!

• Standard - 0 device included
• Suite - Official 10 device included

Well, okay.....

it's integrated in the same way 'operator' etc are integrated ... which is to say, integrated into the core program but you'll need a license to unlock it. I can see why this might confuse non-native english speakers ... but if english is your first language, this shouldn't be a difficult concept to wrap your head around.

With your confidence it just shows understanding English doesn't mean you get sarcasm.

you made a wry remark about a common topic ... my comment is meant generally, since I'm frequently seeing people puzzled by the fact M4L is integrated, but not included in the Standard license.

if you understood how it works from the beginning, that's great, but your remark doesn't exactly indicate that. it's ambiguous at best. one could infer from it a lack of understanding or dissatisfaction, or both. the sarcastic tone doesn't really alter the message.

ymmv.

[pdxindy]

To answer the original question, I dont think it's overpriced. I got live 9 for about 600 aud when it was 30% off. The upgrade is about half of that so it works out about right. Omnisphere 2 upgrade was about half it's full price and I think most vst upgrades are, arent they?

The fact this is integrated with m4l alone makes it worth it. Now we can finally use m4l and get access to lfos, envelopes, shapers and shit, making this thing fully modular rather than a DAW that still depends on 3rd party stuff. No more m4l crash.

Shit, I think this is gonna be pretty f#cking great quite personally.

potentially... it remains to be seen what the practical result will be... will it actually be more stable and use less cpu? It is a promising possibility!

[pekbro]

Is everyone getting the $271 price for the upgrade from standard 9 - suite 10?
That is the price they have it for at JRR's for instance. A while back ableton
told me that any addons you already owned would be deducted from the
upgrade price. I purchased M4L seperately, this used to be reflected in the upgrade
price.

I'm wondering if they have set a standard price that does not reflect what you have
spent on addons. Which would suck... as essentially you would have paid for
Max twice.

-Cheers

[chroma]

Is everyone getting the $271 price for the upgrade from standard 9 - suite 10?
That is the price they have it for at JRR's for instance. A while back ableton
told me that any addons you already owned would be deducted from the
upgrade price. I purchased M4L seperately, this used to be reflected in the upgrade
price.

is that what you get when you are logged in at Ableton? (only ableton can do this, JRR has no idea what addons you have).

though... as a full suite owner, the upgrade is $229 (at ableton, resellers may eventually be cheaper), so that's about the lower limit.

[pekbro]

Yes that is at ableton, it looks like addons that you have previously purchased are not factored into the upgrade cost. At least not prior to check out. I have 2 addons, M4L and the sampler. No way I should be getting the same price as someone who never spent that extra $200 bucks or so.

It would be helpful if someone on standard who doesn’t have M4L would comment on the price of their upgrade offer.

-cheers

[Daags]

Yes that is at ableton, it looks like addons that you have previously purchased are not factored into the upgrade cost. At least not prior to check out. I have 2 addons, M4L and the sampler. No way I should be getting the same price as someone who never spent that extra $200 bucks or so.

It would be helpful if someone on standard who doesn’t have M4L would comment on the price of their upgrade offer.

-cheers

your best bet is to email Ableton support ..... someone upgrading from 9 Standard + M4L + Sampler to 10 Suite should obviously be getting a better deal than 9 Standard to 10 Suite.

you should only be judging the prices based on purchasing/upgrading direct through Ableton's store, and comparing prices with others doing the same.

Throwing JRR Shop into the mix will only cause problems, not only because it's a 3rd party reseller, but because I've read other users report that some upgrades were initially cheaper and then the price increased .... this tends to happen at 3rd part resellers when a new upgrade comes out, if you're quick enough you can capitalise on the small window of time that there is some pricing confusion.

[pekbro]

Yeah, I just mentioned the JRR thing as it tipped me off that something was amiss. It shouldn’t be the same unless the price has been set without regard to any addons.

I will email Ableton to see what’s up.
The offer is considerably less attractive, if they won’t count what we’ve already paid for, even with the free upgrade imho.

-cheers