u-he refurbished Preset Browser discussion

[pdxindy]

I agree that clicking the main category Pads should show everything in Pads

But there would be no way to show only those presets without a sub-category selected... thus the Pads sub-category.

I would rather have that function than not have it. If for no other reason than to be able to list which presets I mistakenly didn't give a sub-category to.

Having a pad subcategory for pad will be forever confusing.

Okay, I will take you at your word that you will be confused forever... Speaking for myself, I was confused for about a minute, until I figured out why it was there and it will never be confusing again. I would have understood it immediately if the sub-category were labeled 'None' rather than 'Pads'

I believe that it is better to have the functionality to sort for Pad presets that have no sub-category. If you re-name it to none, some other word, or provide that functionality another way, fine, but the functionality should be there. Filtering by sub-category should not 'lose' some presets.

[Stollmeister]

I guess we ought to remember that this browser is meant for all U-He synths. Though "woodwind" and "guitar" might not make sense for Repro, they could make some sense for Zebra. Some of the Zebra libraries I have contains those sounds.

[aMUSEd]

I guess we ought to remember that this browser is meant for all U-He synths. Though "woodwind" and "guitar" might not make sense for Repro, they could make some sense for Zebra. Some of the Zebra libraries I have contains those sounds.

I just made a guitar patch for Repro 5 and it would not be difficult to create clarinet, oboe and flute patches.

[Howard]

There are a couple of Cor Anglais sounds in the factory presets. Reed, Woodwind

[aMUSEd]

Again I suggest just checking the original Prophet 5 factory banks to see the range of sounds it included (it was pretty much standard in those days for analog synth patch banks to include emulationsapproximations of acoustic instruments as much to showcase what they could do as for musical purposes)

[aaron aardvark]

Urs and tasmanian,
Before I forget, thank you for replying to my comments. Your suggestions worked!

[Echoes in the Attic]

I agree that clicking the main category Pads should show everything in Pads

But there would be no way to show only those presets without a sub-category selected... thus the Pads sub-category.

I would rather have that function than not have it. If for no other reason than to be able to list which presets I mistakenly didn't give a sub-category to.

Having a pad subcategory for pad will be forever confusing. Sure you could get into logical operator territory - I really need a pad that ISN'T breathy... if you really wanted to go down that road, it would be far neater to right click on a tag, which would return anything BUT that tag.

Personally I don't think that's necessary anyway. The whole idea of tags is to simplify searching. I want a Pad... click Pad, and there they are. You often don't need to drill down any further in a subcategory there, because one of the other fields will be more appropriate. Analogue... phat, so you jump to Character for those and job done. It's far more logical to streamline everything into thinking on those lines than worrying about categories that are exclusively not other categories.

I think there are two different issues that we both are identifying.

One is that when you click top level pads, it should show all the pads without any further filtering. Either defaulting to "Any" sub category, or preferably, getting rid of any and showing all pads (ie,all or any sub category) when none are selected, would achieve this.

The second is more minor and is just that it seems weird to have a sub category of pads within pads. I mean, aren't they all pads? This is just a naming issue though. That's why I suggested something like "Pure" or "Simple". I agree that a sub category of pads within pads is confusing.

[frank-uhe]

u-he/Urs,
2. Very often I make a very slight edit to a patch, then I add my real initials to the end of the patch name, so I can tell them apart. But if that patch is in a different folder, how can I quickly compare the 2 patches without hunting all over for it? I agree there should be an option to put them in the same folder.

Just wanted to mention, that in your special case it very easy to create a search for the patches. Just click in the search text and type the name of the original patch name. You just need to type a "relevant" part. Play with that a bit and you find what you require and you can always edit the search. If the search displays a few more presets it might not even be too bothersome because the presets your looking for are next to each other in the list. If there are spaces in the preset name, don't forget to use quotation marks around the name.

[pdxindy]

General comment...

Besides various small issues being discussed, I am pleased with the new browser concept. It has managed to maintain what I have always liked about the u-he presets browser, while adding functionality that many people have asked for. And that functionality let's the user choose when and where to use it.

Still needs some refinement/polish, but the overall concept

[frank-uhe]

I think there are two different issues that we both are identifying.

Yes, indeed!

One is that when you click top level pads, it should show all the pads without any further filtering. Either defaulting to "Any" sub category, or preferably, getting rid of any and showing all pads (ie,all or any sub category) when none are selected, would achieve this.

I would like to understand the workflow of this approach, because I think it is not that simple. Please think about complicated searches with more than one Category (say Leads and Pads) and how the GUI should look like to clearly display to the user what is searched. There is not only one use case for the search GUI. The user might want to browse in different categories to get inspiration or edit a search... All these cases should be covered.

The second is more minor and is just that it seems weird to have a sub category of pads within pads. I mean, aren't they all pads? This is just a naming issue though. That's why I suggested something like "Pure" or "Simple". I agree that a sub category of pads within pads is confusing.

I agree about that, too. We came up with no good solution before the public beta. The question is: is it really required to tag a preset like that? Does it create more confusion than it helps? What does "pure Pads" really mean?

[pdxindy]

The second is more minor and is just that it seems weird to have a sub category of pads within pads. I mean, aren't they all pads? This is just a naming issue though. That's why I suggested something like "Pure" or "Simple". I agree that a sub category of pads within pads is confusing.

I agree about that, too. We came up with no good solution before the public beta. The question is: is it really required to tag a preset like that? Does it create more confusion than it helps? What does "pure Pads" really mean?

'Pure' or 'Simple' is maybe more confusing than 'Pads'... it does not point to understanding and is not descriptive of what it is.

'None' or 'No-Sub' or 'No Sub-Cat' at least describes what it is...

[pdxindy]

One is that when you click top level pads, it should show all the pads without any further filtering. Either defaulting to "Any" sub category, or preferably, getting rid of any and showing all pads (ie,all or any sub category) when none are selected, would achieve this.

I would like to understand the workflow of this approach, because I think it is not that simple. Please think about complicated searches with more than one Category (say Leads and Pads) and how the GUI should look like to clearly display to the user what is searched. There is not only one use case for the search GUI. The user might want to browse in different categories to get inspiration or edit a search... All these cases should be covered.

Maybe all those cases should be covered. But a primary thing is confusing because of it.

The top level of tags, are not actually tags but appear as such. Most people, when they select 'Pads' will think that they have selected a tag and expect to see a result.

The word 'Categories' should maybe be something like "Type of Tags' or 'Categories of Tags'... and they should be visually different from all the actual tags below. This would help communicate that in selecting a category, all one has done is show which tags are available to be clicked on.

***

Okay, wanting to provide ability to search multiple categories explains why it is as it is. If that is desired behavior, at least make it default to 'Any' selected when one selects the top category. Then the user will see all pads upon selecting Pads category.

[frank-uhe]

'Pure' or 'Simple' is maybe more confusing than 'Pads'... it does not point to understanding and is not descriptive of what it is.

'None' or 'No-Sub' or 'No Sub-Cat' at least describes what it is...

We've discussed 'None' here, but then it would mean that a search could display something like 'Bass:none'. That would be confusing IMHO. 'No-Sub' or 'No Sub-Cat' do work, but they are short cuts for the more descriptive "No Subcategory", which is way too long on the other hand.

[frank-uhe]

Maybe all those cases should be covered. But a primary thing is confusing because of it.

The top level of tags, are not actually tags but appear as such. Most people, when they select 'Pads' will think that they have selected a tag and expect to see a result.

The word 'Categories' should maybe be something like "Type of Tags' or 'Categories of Tags'... and they should be visually different from all the actual tags below. This would help communicate that in selecting a category, all one has done is show which tags are available to be clicked on.

We tried to make that visually different by altering the selection color of the buttons. But yes, that might not have been enough.

Okay, wanting to provide ability to search multiple categories explains why it is as it is. If that is desired behavior, at least make it default to 'Any' selected when one selects the top category. Then the user will see all pads upon selecting Pads category.

Think about what happens when you look for the right subcategory in the different categories or you just clicked on the wrong category. Some button gets activated without you've ever clicked on it and when you continue working on the search, you might have missed what happened. I think that would be very annoying in any use case except the one where you search only in one category and never click on another.

Don't get me wrong, I don't say it shouldn't change, but simply selecting 'any' automatically isn't the solution IMHO.

[EvilDragon]

I still don't see why is it a problem to select the main category and expecting to show ALL the patches that have any of its sub-category tags. It's how literally all other tag browsers (that I've used at least) work. Yes, even when combining multiple categories, it still works. If I wanna search pads, I wanna search pads, I don't care about their sub-category! I want to see them all.

Hence, there should be no "Any" sub-category, or repeated main category tag as sub-category. You're making this tag browser needlessly more complicated than it should be, compared to all others.