TSC Request for Help with Tracking Down Collective Silence Bug

[twilli003]

I'm a newcomer to Waveform 8 and encountered the Collective silence bug.

For me, I can always reproduce the problem with certain presets by repeatedly reloading the preset if the problem did not occur on the initial loading of the preset. (Reload by double clicking with the mouse or hitting the enter key).
Usually it takes just a few reloads (prehaps as much as 10 but usually much less) for me to reproduce.

I've tested using Collective 1.0.6 (64 bit) on Waveform 8.2.0 and Ableton Live 10 Beta and the results are the same.

With some presets, only the left audio channel becomes silent, with other presets both audio channels become silent.
When the problem occurs, I have found that turning off all of the effects always restores the sound on both channels.

Examples of presets where only the left audio channel goes silent:
B Percussion Organ 1
B Percussion Organ 2
B3 Full+Prc+Kyclk
Combo Organ G2
E. Bass Fngr SVT
E. Bass Pick Bassman
Galactic Static

Examples of presets where both audio channels go silent:
Get Fooled Organ
Jazz 120
Les Paul Champ


System specs: Intel i7-2600, 3.40GHz, 8GB, Windows 10 Pro, 64 bit
Audio device: Yamaha Steinberg UR22

[tatanka]

Hi twilli03,

you should definitley try the new 8.2.7 (in your account under "beta"), for me, after month of trouble, it solved the collective and biotek problems so far (Testing it for 2 days now).

Edit: and of course the actual collective, beta is 1.1.0 I assume (not sure, just took the latest one)

[zzz00m]

Not seeing the silence bug in 8.2.6 or 8.2.7 with Collective 1.1.0.

[twilli003]

After installing Collective 1.1.0 beta, I can still easily reproduce the problem in Waveform 8.2.0 and Ableton 10 beta as I previously described.
I also tried Collective 1.1.0 in Reason 10, and again the same issue.

I couldn't find any beta for Waveform in my account, so I can't confirm if the problem occurs in Waveform 8.2.7.

tatanka, zzz00m,
Are you able to reload the "Les Paul Champ" preset multiple times without the problem showing up?
In my case, this preset seems particularly prone to the problem.

[zzz00m]

When you sign in to your Tracktion account , you should see a link for "archives" under "My Downloadable Products". That page contains all Waveform releases since the first one, including all betas.

I tried my test project again with 4 instances of Collective, and also switched all 4 to the preset "Les Paul Champ" numerous times without any issues.

I recall that Waveform 8.2.0 was still very problematic with Collective, but I am not seeing that today with 8.2.7.

[Mark Swanson]

Looking at this again, I cannot find that Les Paul Champ preset at all. How can I locate it? Maybe I don't have all my sounds.

[zzz00m]

Looking at this again, I cannot find that Les Paul Champ preset at all. How can I locate it? Maybe I don't have all my sounds.

Just use the search field above the right hand column in the browser. Or look under Category 'E-Guitar'.

[Benutzername]

Still instant silence here. Hmm.

[zzz00m]

Still instant silence here. Hmm.

Windows or what?

[twilli003]

When you sign in to your Tracktion account , you should see a link for "archives" under "My Downloadable Products". That page contains all Waveform releases since the first one, including all betas.

Got it, thanks. For me it's the same problem with Waveform 8.2.7 though.

[Mark Swanson]

I found that preset, and I have upgraded everything to the most recent versions...I'll try it and report back tomorrow.

[twilli003]

The release notes for Collective 1.1.0 indicate that logging was added "to report wrong numbers produced by the audio processing".
No log file has been created in my case, so perhaps the problem is not due to wrong numbers being produced?

The behavior I observe is consistent with the theory that any of the effects modules can potentially malfunction and block either the left channel or both channels.

Using the Les Paul Champ preset as an example, there are three active effects modules, 2, 3 and 4.
When the problem occurs, turning off all the effects modules always ensures that the signal is restored on both audio channels.
If only module 4 is turned off, the signal is restored on the right channel only, suggesting that the left channel is still being blocked by one or both of modules 2 and 3.
Turning off module 3 (after turning off module 4) sometimes restores the signal on both channels.
At other times the signal on the left channel remains blocked after switching off module 3 and is only restored after also switching off module 2.

[magicmusic]

the distortion have on my system the problem, that some clipping settings do not work. its reproducable see video



have other not this problem ?

this is old collective. I have now deinstall all waveform and so i have not test 1.1.0 and 8.2.7

[twilli003]

the distortion have on my system the problem, that some clipping settings do not work. its reproducable see video

have other not this problem ?

this is old collective. I have now deinstall all waveform and so i have not test 1.1.0 and 8.2.7

I'm seeing the same issue with Collective 1.1.0, and it's quite reproducible for me as well.

With the distortion type set to Medium or Hard, turning up the Drive parameter silences the sound.

[zzz00m]

The release notes for Collective 1.1.0 indicate that logging was added "to report wrong numbers produced by the audio processing".
No log file has been created in my case, so perhaps the problem is not due to wrong numbers being produced?

The behavior I observe is consistent with the theory that any of the effects modules can potentially malfunction and block either the left channel or both channels.

Using the Les Paul Champ preset as an example, there are three active effects modules, 2, 3 and 4.
When the problem occurs, turning off all the effects modules always ensures that the signal is restored on both audio channels.
If only module 4 is turned off, the signal is restored on the right channel only, suggesting that the left channel is still being blocked by one or both of modules 2 and 3.
Turning off module 3 (after turning off module 4) sometimes restores the signal on both channels.
At other times the signal on the left channel remains blocked after switching off module 3 and is only restored after also switching off module 2.

I never produced any log data when reproducing the silence in Waveform 8.2.0.

My tests were based on using 2-4 instances of Collective, playing back a looped MIDI clip for several bars that I put together in a pattern generator and copied to all tracks. No imported MIDI clips or audio files present.

The silence bug appeared often, with just about any preset. I observed two details about the problem that were consistent.

1. Turning off one or more FX within the preset almost always brought the sound output back. Then enabling the FX again silenced the output. Like a toggle switch, audio on/off.

2. Switching presets often brought the sound back to the instance of Collective that had failed.

Sometimes more than one instance of Collective would fail.

Sometimes a silence failure in one instance of Collective would also silence the Master Section output, so that the entire DAW would go silent, even with the track meters on working instances of Collective still showing track output. In this case disabling the FX sections of the affected Collective instance would resume audio at the Master output.

But like I said, I am not seeing any of this with Waveform 8.2.7 and Collective 1.1.0.

I tested some of the same tracks in a couple of other DAWs, but never had a complete audio failure. The sound would briefly drop out on a single track, then resume by itself. It was hard to reproduce, and was not frequent.