Tone2 I2 vs Trueno Analog

[db3]

You don't get it. Both BS2 and Pulse 2 have DACs in themselves as part of the synth engine itself, in order to support patch storage and modulation.

Why would analogue synths like a BS2 use DACs (unless converting audio for digital transfer e.g. through USB or for digital FX send)?
Surely the analogue circuit is digitally controlled (microprocessor) — not converted between analogue and digital.

[EvilDragon]

If modulation is generated digitally via CPU, they'd need it. If analog synth has presets, it needs both ADCs and DACs to store the analog values in binary representation and back to analog again. Either way there's some CPU at work there. Knobs are potentiometers (resistors), buttons are relays, these things are all analog domain, and somehow need to be stored as a preset in a chip (digital) somehow.

The only difference would be if a digital control has been used in the first place (endless encoder) - then you only need DACs, not ADCs.

At least that is my understanding.

(unless converting audio for digital transfer e.g. through USB or for digital FX send)

That would be ADC, not DAC.

[ghettosynth]

Why would analogue synths like a BS2 use DACs (unless converting audio for digital transfer e.g. through USB)?
Surely the analogue circuit is digitally controlled (microprocessor) — not converted between analogue and digital.

How do you propose that a CPU control, e.g., resonance and cutoff, of an analogue filter without using a DAC? Any alternative suggestion that you can name will just be a DAC in another form.

This thread is hilarious.

[db3]

If modulation is generated digitally via CPU, they'd need it. If analog synth has presets, it needs both ADCs and DACs to store the analog values in binary representation and back to analog again.

Why would you convert an analogue audio signal into binary with a DAC to store presets? The microprocessor controls and knows values used by analogue chips and stores that data as the preset.

[EvilDragon]

And how does a DIGITAL microprocessor which deals only with 0s and 1s know the values from ANALOG realm (much more than 0s and 1s)? IT HAS TO CONVERT IT TO DIGITAL! Hence, ADCs.


Basics. Tech from 80s (actually Prophet-5 had it first, so 1978). Really, let's stop being ridiculous at this point.

[db3]

I'm only guessing, but I assumed it wouldn't be trying to convert the signal to understand a value. More that the processor performs the function of an analogue control. i.e. it dictates the values which are read by voice chips.

[EvilDragon]

Wrong. Processor, being digital, cannot understand anything from the analog realm unless it's being converted to a stream of 0s and 1s beforehand. Vice versa for controlling stuff in analog realm, it needs DAC to convert a stream of 0s and 1s to analog values.

Basic electronics and computing.

[wickfut]

you has your adcs and dacs the wrong way around.. but anyway

[EvilDragon]

Yes, ADC should've been there in my second to last post. Kinda easy to make a typo there when somebody's wrong on the Internet

[db3]

So what you're saying is it works the other way round...DACs sample the analogue circuit to measure values? Interesting, I assume this can still be done while maintaining a fully analogue signal path.

[Freaqpeak]

Interesting... But I don't really understand to who this is made for.
I use both software and also got a medium/large eurorack and other true analogs.. + Virus TI etc.

USB can be a pain, even with the Virus TI. Now....if this USB dingle introduces latency..... how the hell is connecting external MIDI controllers to this even useful when it introduces so large latency?

The reason for using hardware today is not only the sound, its the "hands on" interfaces....
I'm sorry but HUGE latency like this introduces is a no-no when working with hardware....

I dont really get the product and who it is aimed for.... Im thinking gimmick..

[EvilDragon]

So what your saying is it works the other way round...DACs sample the analogue circuit to measure values? Interesting, I assume this can still be done while maintaining a fully analogue signal path.

Was a typo. ADCs sample the analog circuit to convert values to digital. DACs convert the stored value in a RAM chip somewhere (your preset) to analog value.

If modulation is digital, then it already isn't a fully analog signal path However, if digital control is there just for storing presets, then it is possible to have a fully analog path (except in case of Trueno with optional digital waveforms, that is obviously not the case, it's a sort of a hybrid then). Then it's just control that's digital, and all the niceties that come with it (stepped values if knobs are scanned with not enough resolution, etc.).

[ghettosynth]

And how does a DIGITAL microprocessor which deals only with 0s and 1s know the values from ANALOG realm (much more than 0s and 1s)? IT HAS TO CONVERT IT TO DIGITAL! Hence, DACs.


Basics. Tech from 80s (actually Prophet-5 had it first, so 1978). Really, let's stop being ridiculous at this point.

Right !?! It's pretty clear that some of you posting in this thread couldn't read a data sheet to save your life. Maybe you should be honest with yourselves about that?

[db3]

So what your saying is it works the other way round...DACs sample the analogue circuit to measure values? Interesting, I assume this can still be done while maintaining a fully analogue signal path.

Was a typo. ADCs sample the analog circuit to convert values to digital. DACs convert the stored value in a RAM chip somewhere (your preset) to analog value.

If modulation is digital, then it already isn't a fully analog signal path However, if digital control is there just for storing presets, then it is possible to have a fully analog path (except in case of Trueno with optional digital waveforms, that is obviously not the case, it's a sort of a hybrid then). Then it's just control that's digital, and all the niceties that come with it (stepped values if knobs are scanned with not enough resolution, etc.).

Well that makes no sense to me, as there are plenty of digitally controlled analogue synths which offer complex modulation, and have a full analogue signal path. Take Elektron for example...only the FX send passes into the digital realm.

Or a newer Moog..."The Sub 37 is an analogue/digital hybrid with an analogue signal path controlled by digitally generated modulators and contour generators."

[egbert101]

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