Vst plugin output number

[MuTools]

Please reread the above posts on topic, some people have pointed to cons of a system-linked user key.

[Pyrotek45]

I for one will simply not buy any software when their copy protection is too cumbersome(ilok for example).

Its annoying for people who pay for their software.

Its a waste of time if it does get cracked.

Copy protection takes time from development.

Treating customers like theives is never a good look.

Possible bugs ,and failures of the Copy protection system are introduced.

Locking keys to a computer is just telling your customers 1, you dont trust them and 2, that your computer has more right to your software than you do. I believe when you buy a license, it should be tied to the person. Not a piece of machine.

A person should be able to use the software they paid for on all the computers they own.

At the end of the day, it comes down to which philosophy you subcribe to. Do you believe the majority of people are good...or bad? Why. Burden rhose who pay for the actions of those who don't? Why let people who pirate have it easier than those who buy when it comes to how they use software? If a pirate is able to use software on All their machines easily, so too should the paying customer.

[Grizzellda]

Locking keys to a computer is just telling your customers 1, you dont trust them and 2, that your computer has more right to your software than you do. I believe when you buy a license, it should be tied to the person. Not a piece of machine.

This is heart-warming stuff you're saying! Let's go and have a beer...everyone loves and cares about each other... in fantasyland...

But seriously...has the Ilok or E-Licenser ever been cracked? I thought it to be the professional solution.

If MuLab went Ilok, I would easily go for it, because there is also some other software (Slate, Kush) that I would like to use, which requires it.

Sounds like MuTools wont consider it? Could that be sillyness?

I think the idea is that if you go Ilok, then they handle the technology,(and stress) of the copy protection, and you, as the software developer, can focus on developing software. And you are a darn fine developer...please don't take my posts as any sort of put down man, I dig MuLab.

I'm throwing out progressive ideas here Jo...I thought that's what you asked for...

[Pyrotek45]

Ilok is a scam. I used it once before and never agian will i use it. If mulab went ilok, i would never upgrade and probably sell my copy if im allowed.

[Grizzellda]

Ilok is a scam. I used it once before and never agian will i use it. If mulab went ilok, i would never upgrade and probably sell my copy if im allowed.

Sure, I respect your position, but how do you account for all the professionals who use hardware dongles daily, and make a living in the industry? The guys who don't complain on internet forums...because they are busy making money using Ilok & eLicenser products.

And I asked if the hardware solutions had ever been cracked? Do you know? And how is Ilok a scam?

[Pyrotek45]

Ilok is a scam. I used it once before and never agian will i use it. If mulab went ilok, i would never upgrade and probably sell my copy if im allowed.

Sure, I respect your position, but how do you account for all the professionals who use hardware dongles daily, and make a living in the industry? The guys who don't complain on internet forums...because they are busy making money using Ilok & eLicenser products.

And I asked if the hardware solutions had ever been cracked? Do you know? And how is Ilok a scam?

Ilok is a scam because their sole intent is to make money, not fight piracy. They want to sqeeze every last dollar from your bank account as possible and make using their products a living nightmare. For example, my first and last ilok product was one i got on sale for 30 bucks for hybrid air(its a buck now, go figure). I siad hell for that price ill deal with the ilok. After i reformat my computer a few times and reinstall it one day , it said i ran out of keys. So i call and guess what? They wanted 50 bucks to get what i already paid for back? What a scam. I said no thanks. Uninstalled. Nonsense. If they just wanted to fight piracy why would they not help a paying customer? Why is their pos dongle 50$? Not to mention the stories of it breaking. They're so transparent when it comes to them scamming you. And to act like ilok is impossible to crack is naive at best. Protools is all over the pirate bay.

If you're ok with companies strong arming you to buy 50$ toy dongles and treating you like a future theif, be my guest. But thats not for me . ill support companies that support their customers.

[Grizzellda]

Hey, Pyrotek45, I appreciate your answers here, and your issues with Ilok is simply your business. I still maintain that there is an established, experienced industry of professionals out there using these products, and if they didn't work well, then that would be known by now...

...but all I really hear is......... once-in-while...... some disgruntled dudes complaining KVR or GearSlutz.

So I basically feel that Jo should consider better ways to protect his work, that's all I'm really getting at here.

[Pyrotek45]

Hey, Pyrotek45, I appreciate your answers here, and your experience with Ilok is simply your business. I still maintain that there is an established, experienced industry of professionals out there using these products, and if they didn't work well, then that would be known by now...

...but all I really hear is......... once-in-while...... some disgruntled dudes complaining KVR or GearSlutz.

So I basically feel that Jo should consider better ways to protect his work, that's all I'm really getting at here.

I agree with you that there are people out there using ilok just fine. Thats true. However just because there IS an industry of people using it, doesn't make the product or that industry good(look at crocs or american internet). Not to mention some people just don't have the willpower to say no, when there is a flashy new vst with ilok. Not to mention most musicians are probably more into music than computers, and dont realise that there are better ways to handle copy protection than ilok, so they use it assuming that ilok is just how it is- not realising they're paying into something that imho is unnecessary.

[pljones]

The same question but in another format:
Is it fair that people can use the single same user key on many different computers? (and worst case: illegal sharing of user key)

Or another way:
Is it fair that Person 1 pays MuTools for a key that Person 2, Person 3 and so on can use without paying MuTools anything?

If yes, basically you're suggesting the software should have no cost to Person 2, etc.

If no, then you need a secure way to identify that Person 2 (etc) is not Person 1. That then requires a method of achieving that identification that cannot be worked around.

Ideally, any method should not require the developer's continued existence for Person 1 to continue using a licence they've paid for, so ideally the method needs to be based solely on Person 1 themselves. That's unrealistic, of course.

So any method must rely on something owned by Person 1 that is not possible to duplicate but is not going to become obsolete quickly. Again, that's hard problem. Anything digital is essentially easy to duplicate, so there must be some factor that is physical.

The obvious thing - the thing that's needed to run the software - is the computer it's running on. The tricky bit is the "become obsolete quickly" part - because three to five years is fairly quick. If the method could achieve monotonic self-replication - i.e. it ensured any old instance of itself became invalid when creating a new instance - that might work.

Something like: Add new disk to old system, hop onto new disk, deleting old instance (won't write to port disk unless delete works), insert new disk into new system, hop off disk onto new system, deleting instance on porting disk (won't write to new system unless delete works)?

[MuTools]

I believe when you buy a license, it should be tied to the person. Not a piece of machine.

FYI: Also now, with MuLab/MUX 7, you cannot use your user key to unlock MuLab on more than 2 computers.

A person should be able to use the software they paid for on all the computers they own.

I disagree. I think that's especially something to be clear about towards users.

Burden rhose who pay for the actions

The only practical thing that would change is that when MuLab/MUX is used on another computer you will get a mild reminder "Please upgrade your user key". That's all.

Why let people who pirate have it easier than those who buy when it comes to how they use software?

People who use cracked software put themselves in an illegal situation and also take big risks wrt virusses etc. And i'm confident they will NOT be able to use MuLab/MUX in the same way as legit users can.

If a pirate is able to use software on All their machines easily, so too should the paying customer

The pirate will not be able to do so. Prove me the opposite for MuLab/MUX.

[Pyrotek45]

The same question but in another format:
Is it fair that people can use the single same user key on many different computers? (and worst case: illegal sharing of user key)

Or another way:
Is it fair that Person 1 pays MuTools for a key that Person 2, Person 3 and so on can use without paying MuTools anything?

If yes, basically you're suggesting the software should have no cost to Person 2, etc.

If no, then you need a secure way to identify that Person 2 (etc) is not Person 1. That then requires a method of achieving that identification that cannot be worked around.

This is silly. If you could prove that person 2 or 3 would have otherwise bought mutools, then sure but otherwise person 2 and 3 would have either A. Either never heard of mutools or B.never intended on buying it anyways.

You cant prove that someone who pirated a copy of any software would have otherwise bought it. More than likely they would have just found another alternative.

Have you ever been to a friends house and watched tv or played a game on their console? Is that stealing too? Ofc it isn't.

So how about this, just make a simple lock and key and thats it. But i bet you that most people who buy their software would not give what they bought away for free. And if they do, i agree thats wrong but its not the worst thing in the world. Now that person has been exposed to something and if they like it they too will buy it and if they dont, well who's to say they were ever going to buy it anyways? One pirated copy doea NOT = one lost sale.

[pljones]

Is it fair that Person 1 pays MuTools for a key that Person 2, Person 3 and so on can use without paying MuTools anything?
If yes, basically you're suggesting the software should have no cost to Person 2, etc.
If no, then you need a secure way to identify that Person 2 (etc) is not Person 1. That then requires a method of achieving that identification that cannot be worked around.

This is silly.

No, it's the entire point of the conversation. Perhaps you're not following the logic?

If you could prove that person 2 or 3 would have otherwise bought mutools, then sure but otherwise person 2 and 3 would have either A. Either never heard of mutools or B.never intended on buying it anyways.

How is that relevant to the above?

You can prove that someone who pirated a copy of any software would have otherwise bought it.

Fact or fiction? Where do you get this idea?

More than likely they would have just found another alternative.

??

Have you ever been to a friends house and watched tv or played a game on their console? Is that stealing too? Ofc it isn't.

Uh, irrelevant...

So how about this, just make a simple lock and key and thats it.

Which is where we are now...

But i bet you that most people who buy their software would not give what they bought away for free.

Quite. So?

[Pyrotek45]

Nobody here can prove that someone who gets mutools for free would have otherwised paid for it. Its just that simple. If someone pirAtes ableton what proof can you offer to me that proves he would have bought ableton if he could not get it any other way? Would he not just go with the next best thing? Ofc he would. Like i said, one pirated copy does NOT = one lost sale. And to jo, if you disagree that people shouldnt use their software on their computers. All of which they bought, then theres nothing i can say to change your mind. However, its silly to say that its worse to pirate. Like ofc it is and pirates know that, do you think they care?why would they care about viruses if theyre ok with using software for free? Also, mutools torrents are all over Google i just checked and i garantee you can use them on as many computers as you want. You might want to ask google to remove them imho.

[Pyrotek45]

Also the reaaon why i bring up consoles and gaming is because not too long ago xbox was planning on restricting drm on games so people couldn't use them on other systems. There was a big controversy and they didnt go through with their plan, thank god.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... -abandoned

So no, its not irrelevant. My point being no one likes hard core drm, most people will not buy into it, nor want to deal with it. Me being one of those people.

[MuTools]

Nobody here can prove that someone who gets mutools for free would have otherwised paid for it.

Probably not. But you cannot prove the opposite neither.

Its just that simple.

I don't think this is a simple topic. That's why it's good to be discussed thoroughly.

And to jo, if you disagree that people shouldnt use their software on their computers.

To be clear: I disagree with your opinion that there is only one option for software licensing and that's when a user buys a software license that's always for all his computers. I indeed disagree that this is the one and only option. The amount of machines you're allowed to use the software on is a parameter that also influences the price. Being allowed to use it on 5 computers is more expensive than allowing to use it on 1 computer.

then theres nothing i can say to change your mind.

I'm in the state of mind of discussing this topic openly. If you reread this thread you will see that i already took several aspects into account and updated the conceptual idea, which we're still discussing further, which is good.

Also, mutools torrents are all over Google i just checked and i garantee you can use them on as many computers as you want.

And did you actually make music with it during at least a full hour session?
Cracked versions will have strange sounds in their audio output.