FL Studio 12.9 Beta 2.

[xbitz]

+ storing initial values of almost everything (mixing, routing, VST params etc.) in clips also unique in FLS, jamming is superbly fun with it



it's quite sick, Can you smell what IL is cooking?

[inkwarp]

is it just me or is that video blurry?
i can't read it..

[T-CM11]

is it just me or is that video blurry?
i can't read it..

A bit, but perfectly readable when set to 1080P.

[Trancit]

...it's quite sick, Can you smell what IL is cooking?...

At least I can smell, that is nothing i am interested in at all...
What you are doing there in the vid is for me worse than working with an analog Modular synth in a dark room...
Never ever it would come into my mind to fiddle around with something like this...
I want a track to get done... as easy as possible and with the highest quality possible... this is where a DAW has to support me as much as it can...
I am an FLS user since 2007 or perhaps a bit before...

Nevermind... don´t want to upset somebody...

[trancema]

+ storing initial values of almost everything (mixing, routing, VST params etc.) in clips also unique in FLS, jamming is superbly fun with it



it's quite sick, Can you smell what IL is cooking?

Thank you for all videos xbitz, you certainly know your way around FL Studio, but again, I think this is just proving my point how un-intuitive and unnecessary complex and time wasting is simple stuff. For me, personally, I found all these new features just complicating things even more, with even more mouse clicks and digging into menus, a big step-back.
See, for example, I didn't play with FL since version 11 (as it's not my main DAW, not even my DAW at all, but still I am keeping my eye on FL12 and FL20) and there are so many new concepts and features to grasp, that I think I would need another couple of months just to find a way and new workarounds for my intended actions. Now, I have to say that I used to love things like that when I was younger (I was looking at them as challenges), to explore and learn every possible little detail of every DAW and trying to figure out "hidden-cool ways" of doing things, but I am realizing now that most of that would just made me a power user of a DAW, but realistically, while producing music (simple or complex) I would rarely use any of these more "advanced" methods that I've discovered during play, and it was mostly just a waste of time when I found out that I could do same things in other DAWs with 2 steps, but such is life...

We need to make decisions and choices, but I know as I am getting older I am losing my patience for new ways and technology of over complicating our daily lives (not talking just about DAWs here).
I just want to get in focus, make music quickly and straightforward, I don't want for DAW to be an obstacle, but transparent.
Of course, that is why I didn't chose FL as my main DAW, but I still like it and have huge respect for developers (as I have an IT background) but I just wish things are more streamlined and straight, instead it's getting more (unnecessary) complex, and this phenomenon present is everywhere in our daily lives, I don't know why.
I guess we are at point where we will have everything available with no boundaries, no limits, but that makes things very complicated (google: paradox of choice) and most of all, challenges and knowledge is getting completely new dimension and meaning as we are soaked daily with unnecessary information and time consumers that don't actually help in creating more comfortable and enjoyable life nowadays.

Today, I am questioning myself should I revert back to either Logic 9 (even Logic 7), Studio One V2 or even try FL Studio 10 and stick with it.
As I can see, there is currently almost no company that is going to right direction in making our lives easier (in any area of our lives) and that makes these times really sad when we have everything that we can wish and accomplish, but we are losing ourselves in the sea of daily distractions.

Now I apologize for slightly philosophical OT, I am not being negative or criticizing anybody, just saying whats on my heart.

[xbitz]

dear Sirs, officially it's not easy for you (as I've said earlier normally I load a pre-made staring template and begin to work instantly ... not gonna f*ck my time with routing etc. constantly ... )

but...

FL supports the messy way too ... http://timharford.com/books/messy/

[inkwarp]

the daw you are talking about, the one that allows you to work very quickly and straightforward is Studio One?
i don't use it at the moment but as soon as get the cash i will buy it. i have used everything ( except Sonar ) and presonus is the one that is direct and uncluttered. ( for the meantime i am still on FL which i love, but there are several things that are still annoying to me - there is usually several ways to do the same things and there is a lot of clicking on menus and such when some customizable keys and context menus would sort it out. that would be great. the piano roll is popular, deservedly so but i still have to go to a menu and drill down when i want to set a snap, the kind of thing that would be much smoother even if it just had right-click context menu.. it is only this aspect of FL i don't like so musch. in all other respects it's a great program.

[trancema]

dear Sirs, officially it's not easy for you



http://timharford.com/books/messy/

Hehe, thank you for lovely talk, I've enjoyed it all, especially Brian Eno part which I didn't have idea about .
I also love your passion for trying to help and justify your decision for FL studio, you remind me on myself back in the days when I was passionate Logic ambassador (from Emagic days) .

Anyways, this talk can only partially be applied to my concern regarding FL style of workflow, as I was stating, I didn't mind earlier versions as I do mind direction where it all went and developed where is today. I know how FL studio works and I've used it enough (up to v12) to be able to make a complete piece with it.
I also understand developers needs to add new things to make revenues and attract more buyers, especially Image-Line with it's policy of free lifetime updates (which I am applauding them onto, it's a brave move in today's world and I certainly respect and like that approach more than Bitwig's subscription one, but that's another thread), but I was just stating that that turn might not suit my style of work.

Trust me, I love mess and experimentation, I just don't like not being optimized at it time-wise.
When I know I am wasting my time with one tool, because I am aware that same can be done with other tool way faster for me, personally. Maybe for you or somebody else it's not the case.

That's why we have this choice, I guess, but trust me, seems like I was the happiest when I was working with (very limited for today's standards) Logic 5, because I didn't question it, I was ajdusting to it's workflow and learn to cope with its shortcomings and that's where creativity comes from if you ask me, it's from shortcoming, not other way where you have too many options. You need to learn to overcome obstacles, but also not waste time on those and some things which were took for granted in other places.

Then, the years passed by, new ideas and technologies came, made us more "greedy", lazy and comfortable and we started to complain about every single (mostly unnecessary) feature missing from our newest shiny software.
Then it came to point of "over-packing" everything with complexity (in case of Logic, that is version 9) and then everybody (mostly younger crowd) complained how steep learning curve is, especially when you're switching from another DAW.
Then, a major turnpoint happened after 2010 - massive Apple-izing of the world with making everything look "stylish" and sleek, appealing to millennial generation, where everything is "cool" and trying to be different (most of products were applying that process just for a sake of being different, sacrificing workflow and professional needs), and there was Logic Pro X, Final Cut X, Windows 8, Adobe CC and those are just a few big ones, that started this trend.
Ableton started focusing on Push, instead of improving aspects of Live 9 (recent major updates fron 9.5 up to 9.7.5 were a must, because threat of a Bitwig, I would say) and announced version 10 shows that, it's a big dissapointment after 5 years of waiting for me, but that's another story.
FL switched to it's new shiny version 12 look, which looks even more toy-ish and child-ish and still had the same old concept of too many windows and digging through menus (which should be fixed first if you want new "appeal").
Studio One changed their GUI to darker, flat, square, boring and uninspiring, with huge buttons and no well defined contrast between major areas of the software with poor interface customization, just to follow a "dark gui trend" which is currently popular.
Cubase also changed it's interface to darker GUI, but I have to admit that it feels more appealing than eralier versions (though last time I worked with it seriously was SX3) as it is very well thought and customizable enough to change whatever user feel like.
Even Bitwig who is baby in this industry changed interface from version 1 which was good in my opinion to more "toy-like" flatter style (again - trend), although it kept its identity so the change isn't that dramatic like S1, for example.
Call me an old-school man (although I am in my first half of 30-ies so not that old) but I miss old simpler days in software world where you had to learn certain ways and stick with it and don't have too much freedom and instead focus on your music and creativity.
That is the way of "broken piano" reference from the begining of TED video, if you ask me.
And if you want a "messy" software of music production, try Renoise on any tracker, you will like it.
FL studio is not messy in that way, it's just a bit misleading when it comes to intuitive use, for my taste of course, that's all.

Now, regarding to another comment about my taste for workflow and Studio One.
Well, I can't certainly say that is perfect DAW for me or anybody else, but it's the first DAW after those Logic 5 days, that made me feel free to think only about music, accept as it is and not think about workarounds and I have to say it's the first DAW ever that right after installation I made a whole song without any stop, frustration and needing one single thing from user manual, it just felt logical enough (although I was also way more experienced). It's not perfect and I find FL studio has some stuff better implemented (like piano roll) but the workflow is miles ahead, for my style of work.
Another one that is close to my heart, so far is Bitwig, but I am still demoing it and considering their strategy of licensing.

[jancivil]

clips

Can you smell what IL is cooking?

Fermented cabbage?

[xbitz]

clips

Can you smell what IL is cooking?

Fermented cabbage?

^^^

---

other DAWs, please don't start a pointless DAW war here too ...

[Image-Line]

I didn't mind earlier versions as I do mind direction where it all went and developed where is today.

What specifically? Because the only core things that have changed are basically ...

1. Block tracks replaced with Pattern Clips**

2. Looping the step-sequencer individually for each Channel*

3. Graph editors on the Step Sequencer*

4. TS404 and some other plugins.

What exactly can't you do now, that you could in the past?

And why is your glass 1/2 empty when we traded the above for this:













I would hope, anyone who looks at our what's new for the last 20 years (and where it's going) would recognize a healthy product being developed, at a rapid pace, to keep it relevant for the future. FL Studio is a 'good news' story no?

* Returning in a future update
** May return

[xbitz]

^^^ any news about the machine learning, do we expect some kind of Magenta like thing ?
"Magenta is a Google Brain project to ask and answer the questions, “Can we use machine learning to create compelling art and music? If so, how? If not, why not?”" - https://magenta.tensorflow.org/

[jonljacobi]

presonus is the one that is direct and uncluttered.

You're kidding, right? Try the free version before you plop down the cash.

[Coxy]

Also the colour combinations and contrasts look awful, no unity of colours, reminds me of a patchwork quilt looking at it. Also the sliders look toy like.

Perhaps end users could use your extended profiles for the the "Ultimate Free Daw Colour Enhancer Utility" and make FL studio look like a psychedelic nightmare instead?

I'm not having a go... well perhaps I am but it's mildly irritating that you see yourself as the last word on what's good or what's not in the GUI department. You probably already know this (given your extensive experience..) but what GUI works for one user clearly won't always work for another, hence we live in a world of options to suite our own work, styles, tastes and methods of thinking.

After reading your posts within this thread I have to say I am sympathetic to BMoore and Inkwarps comments on your "posting style" shall we'll call it.

And in the interest of fairness, I don't use, own or have any interest in FL Studio.

[inkwarp]

presonus is the one that is direct and uncluttered.

You're kidding, right? Try the free version before you plop down the cash.

why do you say that?
in my experience this is the case. it is very clear and straightforward to me.
it's my opinion based on having used other apps.