Korg updates its Legacy Collection with a new Arp Odyssey emulation

[ENV1]

But, it isn't "for everyone", when a small minority wants to get served, when it takes away ressources from the big majority.

Why.

Why isnt it for everyone if everyone gets what they want and need.

Are you kidding me or what?

And, it's also not about "getting your toys faster", if you had any idea of the amount of coding and testing work involved, you'd get that.

What do you know about what i know?

[chk071]

Well, if you'd know, then you wouldn't claim stuff like that.

And, of course it isn't for everyone, if you want the developer to spend double the effort, for 1/100 (not a real number, just an example) of the userbase. That is neither proportional, nor worth the effort. It's just BS.

I wonder why you guys don't use jBridge though. It also bridges 64-bit plugins to 32-bit hosts, not just vice versa.

[ENV1]

Well, if you'd know, then you wouldn't claim stuff like that.

I see.

No point in arguing with flawless logic like that.

You have the conn.

[wagtunes]

It wouldn't be the first time I've lost TONS of software over the years.

Know the feeling.

I have enough stuff in the basement to open a vintage software shop.

Thats exactly why id rather it wouldnt continue to happen.

(Not needlessly anyway.)

Except it is going to continue. And why? Greed. Software makers stop making money if they stop coming out with new stuff. I'm not saying they don't make improvements with each version but seriously, some of these "improvements" are so negligible that you know the only reason it came out was to make more money and nothing else.

Camtasia is probably one of the WORST offenders of this which is why I'm still using the version that came out who knows when. Because the "improvements" haven't been significant enough for me to shell out yet more money.

And don't even get me started on what they've done with World of Warcraft over the years.

[ENV1]

Except it is going to continue. And why? Greed. Software makers stop making money if they stop coming out with new stuff. I'm not saying they don't make improvements with each version but seriously, some of these "improvements" are so negligible that you know the only reason it came out was to make more money and nothing else.

Yeah, youve got a point there.

But at least on the OS level Microsoft are trying to maintain compatibility (so far) so the situation could be a lot worse. From what i hear Mac users are getting updated out of their software purchases for like ever, which means they can all probably open a software shop by now too only it isnt necessarily all vintage. (My sympathies.)

And don't even get me started on what they've done with World of Warcraft over the years.

Micro payments or what its called?

Want a new sword, fork over five bucks?

That what you mean?

What a scheme indeed, these guys must be frickin rolling in dough.

[sin night]

There are very good reasons to kill 32 bit when the user base is small enough and 64 bit is so widespread.

- You need to test each release in both platforms, so that's an additional cost.
- The major daws have dropped (or are dropping) 32 bits in their latest releases, so 32 bit testing needs to be done on older daws (how long do they need to support older daws) and probably older operating systems too, which maybe even ne already unsupported by the relative manufacturer (especially on Mac).
- Working to support legacy platforms/daws/operating system means working almost exclusively for existing customers rather than new (I bet it brings very little to no new customers).
- This is retail software, so the support is limited to what is required by the law. There's not a paid maintenance contract (like those used by banks and such to maintain their custom software)... and upgrades (which are retail products too and are sold to a variety of customers) include what makes sense for the developer and the majority of the customers (so things may be dropped, even if a small percentage of the user base cares about them)... Maintenance has a cost and it has to be covered somehow; if a developer does some "free" maintenance for existing customers, it's because it's needed to keep the product on sale and so to generate income (which will also cover the maintenance for existing users).
- 64 bit is not a temporary thing, it's here to stay while 32 bit is being phased out. We will never go back to 32 bit, so sooner or later the support has to be dropped.
- 32 bit software means using a legacy machine at some point (because of operating system and daw support), that machine is either a secondary pc slaved to a main modern one (which can run modern software, so 32 bit support is not needed), or it's the main machine of somebody who will spend little to no money on new products/upgrades (so he's not a good source of income for a developer).
- Legacy support often means compromises, for example being forced to use legacy libraries (to the point of having to differentiate code for different targets, so different project streams may be needed) - more work with a small return.
- More code (to support something legacy) also means more chances for bugs.
- It's a bad idea to include anything legacy in a new product: it's something that would be probably dropped soon anyway (but it has to be kept around for a quite enough time, with increasing difficulties/costs, in order to keep happy those few customers who cared about that support - you can't sell a brand new product with 32 bit support and then drop that support after 6 months), it will interest a small fraction of the user base, it steals time from more rewarding developments (such as new features, bugfixes, optimization).
- Working on something that brings little to no money on the table doesn't make any economical sense (developers need to eat, too).
- I could go on...


I don't like being forced to mark some things as legacy, but sometimes it's just needed. It sucks having to buy a new pc and maybe some new software, and maybe also keeping a legacy machine around (it takes money, space and some effort), but technology moves forward and we have to deal with it.

Otherwise you can go hardware, keep things in the state you bought them, rely on old and consolidated technology (analog audio cables, midi and cv) and keep on using those tools even when they go out of production and are not supported anymore by the manufacturer. Or you just work with a legacy computer and the tools you already have and don't care about upgrading and adding new tools (which is almost the same as using a mostly otb setup).
Actually, this is one of the reasons why I went a lot towards hardware in the last few years (dealing less with updates/upgrades and having more long time consistency/reliability in my setup). Of course there are still maintenance costs (things will break someday).


Anyway, 32 bit support doesn't make sense anymore in my opinion. I don't mind if a developer keeps supporting it with little to no effort, but I don't mind either when they decide to drop the support and concentrate their work on 64 bit. On legacy machines, the older 32 bit release will keep on working just fine.

In my opinion, it's a few years since 32 bit should be considered legacy; in the meatime everybody should have consider either migrating to 64 bit (maybe adding a legacy machine to their setup, if needed) or living with just their legacy machine (which is risky in my opinion, because it will break at some point and so there will be a "forced upgrade" anyway, probably even harsher).


Not advocating for 32 bit software is not about being a selfish 64 bit user, it's about understanding when it's time to move forward and have a "smoother transition" instead of fighting a change only to be forced to adopt it later on, usually with a much harder transition.
I think we are already at the decommissioning stage for 32 bit now. Like it or know, but we must live with that.


Just my 2 cents but you know... it's annoying to see the usual 32 bit arguments...

[Aloysius]

... 64bit arguments are so much more sophisticated.

[zvenx]

I saw the direct response to my last post and subsequent posts and was going to respond. However I think sin night's response covers everything I wanted to say, and then some and does it way more eloquently than I ever could.

rsp

[braj]

Last night I found myself needing a 32 bit plugin again (Pod Farm 1) and gee, wasn't I happy that my host has a bit bridge and it is painless to use it? The argument that developers should accommodate a shrinking minority is pretty absurd when that minority has options to keep using their old plugins that are no longer able to run in new environments.

[Aloysius]

That was VERY sophisticated. Bravo!

[Cinebient]

Let‘s meet in the middle and vote all for 24 bit plug-ins.

[EnGee]

I still have 32bit VSTplugins folder. I keep it mainly because of VAZ Modular which I run from time to time in Reaper 32bit, so I don't need a bridge.

There is still Windows 10 32bit, right? So, I think there are still 32bit development environment (Visual C++.net maybe?). So maybe it is not that difficult to compile the 64bit code into 32bit. I don't know really what Korg used to compile their code, but IMO, it worth it to contact them and ask for 32bit if people still need it (I don't think it is so rare to find people still using 32bit environment).

[Teksonik]

So you will please excuse me if this egotistic 'kill 32bit so i get my toys faster' makes me a bit miffed.

You will please excuse me if this egotistic 'Keep 32bit so i get my toys slower' makes me a bit miffed. See, it works both ways.

The two sides have opposite needs. That opposition is not likely to end any time soon. People used to complain when developers dropped official support for Win XP. But you don't see many of those complaints any longer because most people have moved on from XP. The same will apply for 32 bit at some point in time. People will move on.......

If I hadn't learned to move along with the advances in technology I'd still be using an Atari ST running Master Tracks Pro.......

[Teksonik]

Let‘s meet in the middle and vote all for 24 bit plug-ins.

Since when is 24 in the middle of 32 and 64 ?

[Teksonik]

I don't know really what Korg used to compile their code, but IMO, it worth it to contact them and ask for 32bit if people still need it (I don't think it is so rare to find people still using 32bit environment).

I thought we had already established the Korg plugins do come in both 32 and 64 bit ?

Or do you mean moving forward ?