Ableton LIVE 10 ... Officially Announced. (plus: Buy LIVE 9 now with 20% discount, get LIVE 10 free)

[pdxindy]

And I'm sure Gerhard Behles sheds a solitary tear for each and everyone one of the individuals that are like you.
Meanwhile, the bigger picture: Ableton is a behemoth in the DAW marketplace, and there's a significant LIVE-specific controller market that Ableton keeps afloat. In the Amazon 'Best Sellers' rankings for daw controllers, there are two LIVE-specific controllers (Push 2 & APC) in the top 10, there are two more LIVE-'inspired' controllers. The rest of the top ten are generic. In the 'most wished for daw controller' section, the top 2 controllers are LIVE-specific (Push 2 & APC). So losing a few die-hard MPE enthusiasts on the short term is a small price to pay for the long term gain in making sure their strategy in rolling out full native MPE support in their software benefits their hardware above all others.

if we see a LIVE update that brings full native MPE support, I'm wagering it coincides with a full MPE compatible hardware launch of their own. Mickey mouse short term losses by not supporting it before hand aren't going to make anyone in the boardroom sweat.

Of course this is all mere speculation... neither of us have a clue what Ableton will do.

My speculation is Ableton is not going to make an expensive MPE controller.

I have a Push... go look at many of the videos online of people using Live + Push. It is not about the type of expressive playing that would benefit from MPE. That is not Ableton's user base. It is beats and dance music and most of the people using Live have no real need of MPE. Push is good enough, and the areas they are focused on improving are about better control of Live from the hardware.

Both Push 1 and 2 support polyAT in the hardware... yet even after years, Live still cannot record even that. That is not their market or focus.

[2ZrgE]

Don't tell me they ditched the Live 8 theme..I never liked the 9 theme and neither the new one. No update for me then.

[xbitz]

Don't tell me they ditched the Live 8 theme..I never liked the 9 theme and neither the new one. No update for me then.

you're not alone, uppped >> viewtopic.php?f=7&t=493872&p=6914162#p6914162

[2ZrgE]

Thank you - very nice, now waiting for the beta to arrive...

[antic604]

Re: Push 3 and MPE - how exactly would people expect that to work? AFAIK Push already responds to velocity and aftertouch and with buttons you can't have more nuance, i.e. there's no possibility to do swipes etc. moves that you can do with Seaboard keyboards.

[Daags]

Re: Push 3 and MPE - how exactly would people expect that to work? AFAIK Push already responds to velocity and aftertouch and with buttons you can't have more nuance, i.e. there's no possibility to do swipes etc. moves that you can do with Seaboard keyboards.

There's a recent PUSH 3 thread in the 'hardware' subforum ... there's a guy in there who fairly doggedly argues in favour of a full MPE PUSH 3 ... so, go to that thread if you want to see him get into that.

[Daags]

Of course this is all mere speculation... neither of us have a clue what Ableton will do.

My speculation is Ableton is not going to make an expensive MPE controller.

Well, some speculations are more informed than others. If one is willing to accept the Amazon best sellers data as a reasonable metric to inform opinion, one can quite easily come away from that list with the conclusion that Ableton LIVE sells a lot of controllers. The fact two LIVE specific controllers are in the top 10 speaks to that, PUSH 2 is in the top 5 (APC mk II is 6) - with PUSH 2 sales going direct to Ableton's pocket, and the APC no doubt generating licensing fees. Two more controllers are certainly 'LIVE inspired' if not outright LIVE specific. And two LIVE specific controllers occupy the top two spots of the 'most wished for' list (PUSH 2, APC mk II).

If you accept that, and accept the fact that the full MPE controller market is as yet nascent, it is not an extraordinary stretch to believe that if Ableton have their own full MPE controller in the pipeline, they will withold full MPE support in their software until their own hardware is ready to roll out ... the logic of this I've explained a couple times now in previous posts (in short, so as not to offer considerable help to their competitor's efforts in increasing their market foothold before Ableton are ready to compete).

I have a Push... go look at many of the videos online of people using Live + Push. It is not about the type of expressive playing that would benefit from MPE. That is not Ableton's user base. It is beats and dance music and most of the people using Live have no real need of MPE. Push is good enough, and the areas they are focused on improving are about better control of Live from the hardware.

I'm not sure why you keep focusing on the PUSH mention in my reasoning... i.e the low hanging fruit ... I have explicitly stated the only reason I mention PUSH is based on the third hand wishes of others. I have explicitly stated and reinstated that my personal feeling is that they'd roll out new hardware altogether to best use full MPE, and in fact in the PUSH 3 thread I created in the 'hardware' subforum, a discussion you actively particpated in - with me - I even went so far as to propose the name for such a controller might be 'SLIDE'.

So ... in this line of discussion, with you, I am done talking about the PUSH angle since there's only so many times I'm willing to repeat myself to the same individual.

The weird thing is, in the PUSH 3 thread, where you actively participated ... you made absolutely no effort to argue against a PUSH 3 with full MPE support when there was a particular user going some lengths to justify it. You even made a comment that appears to be in some way a concession to his wishes:

Even if a Push 3 did not allow pitch sliding from pad to pad, it would help expressiveness if you had X and Y axis modulation just on each pad.

it's odd then that you choose to seize on that issue here, where it is not the crux of an argument, rather than in the PUSH 3 specific thread where it was. maybe there's an ulterior motive at play, but you are logically inconsistent.

just look at the two quotes when put together ... it's as if a completely different individual is responding to another:

Even if a Push 3 did not allow pitch sliding from pad to pad, it would help expressiveness if you had X and Y axis modulation just on each pad.

I have a Push... go look at many of the videos online of people using Live + Push. It is not about the type of expressive playing that would benefit from MPE. That is not Ableton's user base. It is beats and dance music and most of the people using Live have no real need of MPE. Push is good enough, and the areas they are focused on improving are about better control of Live from the hardware.

[LB0ND]

Have they fixed the Windows Scaling issue on High DPI displays?

[pdxindy]

just look at the two quotes when put together ... it's as if a completely different individual is responding to another:

Even if a Push 3 did not allow pitch sliding from pad to pad, it would help expressiveness if you had X and Y axis modulation just on each pad.

I have a Push... go look at many of the videos online of people using Live + Push. It is not about the type of expressive playing that would benefit from MPE. That is not Ableton's user base. It is beats and dance music and most of the people using Live have no real need of MPE. Push is good enough, and the areas they are focused on improving are about better control of Live from the hardware.

Makes sense to me... the first quote is a suggestion of how a potential Push 3 could be improved to benefit my interests... the second quote is my estimation of Abletons priorities. And yes, they are different and that is why I am no longer using Live.

[antic604]

Have they fixed the Windows Scaling issue on High DPI displays?

Yes! You no longer have to choose between sharp UI & tiny plugins or blurry UI and proper-size plugins

Although not everyone likes new leaner font and in general less bold appearance of the interface

[mcbpete]

Is there any publicly available changelogs for this beta, the only one I can find is this from reddup (whatever that is!) for v10.0b145 - http://www.reddup.co/r/ableton/comments/7btzur

I find them quite interesting as a way to see how things are progressing (including when they mention fixes to features that I had no idea were features in the first place !)

[rod_zero]

In the centercode forum there is a beta changelong, but I don't know if all of it is accesible to all users.

[mcbpete]

In the centercode forum there is a beta changelong, but I don't know if all of it is accesible to all users.

Is that 'ableton.centercode.com' ? If so alas it looks locked out except for the beta-tester folks.

[jonljacobi]

Don't get me wrong, I really like Live and Live 10 and they're great, but those arrangement view screens are very carefully chosen to entice (of course). They show no groups or sub-groups so they don't show the visual mess those create. Especially with the I/O and mini-mixers in view. I can hear the art director now.... "We can't show that! Get me something cleaner."

But it's a nice update nonetheless.

[tooneba]

Yea grouping is already somewhat confusing to me while using, group in group sounds chaotic.