Viper (32 & 64 Bit available)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
12010 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:39 am

adamtrance wrote:
Ingonator wrote:I had owned both a Virus KC (2004-2007) and a Virus TI Mk1 desktop (2006-2015) and i admit that the only feature i am still interested in from teh TI is the Hypersaw.
I think I read multiple times that you are a fan of the Hypersaw in the Virus Ti, and you always mention Icarus. While it does a cool Hypersaw its nothing like the one in the Virus Ti or in Viper. First of all, the real OG Hypersaw in the Virus lets you dynamically dial in the amount of voices. So you can have a single osc Hypersaw, and smoothly dial in more all the way up to 9. In Icarus, you can only choose from Hypersaw 3, 5, 7 and 9. You cannot blend between them. Also the detune in Icarus does not go as far as the Virus Hypersaw. Then, another feature in the Hypersaw is that when you enable the Sub oscillator, you get Hypersquares blended in with the Hypersaws for a very massive sound. Icarus does not that either. So as far as I am aware Viper is the only one that nails all of these right now.
I really thought about buying Viper but then i remembered that there were reasons why i had sold both the Virus KC and Virus TI. Besides that for Hypersaw i alraedy got options that are good enough for me.

Having the choice for 3,5,7 and 9 Hypersaws is is enough for my taste. As in Icarus you could use this with all 3 OScs and it works with all waveforms (not just Saw) you could also do Hypersquare and a lot of other "Hyper" stuff. More or less it's also similar with the "Density" feature in UltraNova while the maximum is 5 detuned waveforms (but with all 3 Oscs so you could get 15 of them).
What i miss in Virus TI and also Viper is a Stereo Hypersaw like that in Icarus.

FWIW i did not mention that Icarus is a full blown Virus TI emulation but for my own Hypersaw and mostly also Supersaw needs (with the proper single cycle waveform used) it is currently more than enough.
With the latest version Icarus now also supports FM between the 3 main Oscs (and not just with using anothe fixed "virtual" oscillator for FM).

I had checked Tone2 Electra 2.1 against my Virus TI before i sold the TI and Electra really nailed it for me. Opposing to Icarus in Electra this feature is limited to a Sawtooth. Electra also has a dedicated "Hypersquare" mode with 9 detuned Squares.

Anyway for Supersaw i also got JP6K (since 2012) and now also have jBridge to use it in Live 9 64-bit.
Ingo Weidner
notebook: HP Omen 15.6" / Win 10 Home 64-bit / i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM / 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD (internal) // audio: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (2nd gen)
DAWs: Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 // controller: Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

adamtrance
KVRian
667 posts since 29 Sep, 2004

Re: Viper (OUT NOW!)

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:21 am

Ingonator wrote:I really thought about buying Viper but then i remembered that there were reasons why i had sold both the Virus KC and Virus TI. Besides that for Hypersaw i alraedy got options that are good enough for me.

Having the choice for 3,5,7 and 9 Hypersaws is is enough for my taste. As in Icarus you could use this with all 3 OScs and it works with all waveforms (not just Saw) you could also do Hypersquare and a lot of other "Hyper" stuff. More or less it's also similar with the "Density" feature in UltraNova while the maximum is 5 detuned waveforms (but with all 3 Oscs so you could get 15 of them).
What i miss in Virus TI and also Viper is a Stereo Hypersaw like that in Icarus.

FWIW i did not mention that Icarus is a full blown Virus TI emulation but for my own Hypersaw and mostly also Supersaw needs (with the proper single cycle waveform used) it is currently more than enough.
With the latest version Icarus now also supports FM between the 3 main Oscs (and not just with using anothe fixed "virtual" oscillator for FM).

I had checked Tone2 Electra 2.1 against my Virus TI before i sold the TI and Electra really nailed it for me. Opposing to Icarus in Electra this feature is limited to a Sawtooth. Electra also has a dedicated "Hypersquare" mode with 9 detuned Squares.

Anyway for Supersaw i also got JP6K (since 2012) and now also have jBridge to use it in Live 9 64-bit.
Sure thats perfectly fine if its good enough for you, but right now we are comparing apples to oranges, both are fruit, but totally different things. I just wanted to make sure we are not misleading people who really want an accurate Hypersaw simulation, not just "multiple waves stacked on top of each other". You can do what Icarus does with Dune2, Serum, etc, but thats why I said I dont know any other synth which simulates the Virus hypersaw like Viper does. By the way if you want stereo separations, you can do it very easily but having the Hypersaw, then add 2x Unison, and move the spread control. You get the same sound.

Also, in the Virus and Viper, if you use the Hypersaw with 9 voices, enable the sub osc so you get 9 Hypersquares, then add 8x Unison on top of it you get (9+9)*8, thats 144 oscillators playing at once with a single key press from 1 oscillator. I dont know if Icarus can do that :P
http://www.adamszabo.com/ - Synths, soundsets and music

anoise
KVRist
121 posts since 1 Jul, 2009

Re: Viper (OUT NOW!)

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:30 am

Gotta love how some people are throwing their arrogance into the developers face, justifying why they will not buy his synth. WTF.

Anyway, this synth is amazing for the VA lovers. Very good for Trance and Psy-Trance. Psy basslines are a piece of cake with this synth thanks to the Punch knob.
Here is an example: https://clyp.it/zqz2vqxd

recursive one
KVRAF
3657 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: Viper (OUT NOW!)

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:51 am

I think Spire does convincing hypersaw as such, but if we talk about these huge trance leads/pads, global unison with LFO phase offset between voices is also a very important feature, which Virus/Viper have and Icarus doesn't (iirc). Spire doesn't have this either. Global unison may be found in Dune2 but the overall sonic character of Dune is very remote from Virus.

Actually many of these massive pads were made on Virus B/C which didn't have the hypersaw, global unison + LFO to PWM did the trick (you may check out the preset Pad Symphony in Viper factory bank 2 which is a recreation of a famous Virus C preset).

Icarus is a fine synth, but to my ears it has some very digital/plastic quality in its sound which I'm not sure that I like.
I hate incomplete sentences because they ...

User avatar
Roman Wisniak
KVRist
208 posts since 28 Jul, 2003 from Poland

Re: Viper (OUT NOW!)

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:54 am

anoise wrote:Gotta love how some people are throwing their arrogance into the developers face, justifying why they will not buy his synth. WTF.

Anyway, this synth is amazing for the VA lovers. Very good for Trance and Psy-Trance. Psy basslines are a piece of cake with this synth thanks to the Punch knob.
Here is an example: https://clyp.it/zqz2vqxd
+1
DAW StudioOne 4 Audio Interface Presonus 1818VSL with Universal Control 2.7 CPU Intel Core i9-7920X @4400 OS Win8.1 64Bit / OSX (Hackintosh) HighSierra.

kmonkey
KVRAF
3868 posts since 17 Aug, 2004

Re: Viper (OUT NOW!)

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:36 am

anoise wrote:Gotta love how some people are throwing their arrogance into the developers face, justifying why they will not buy his synth. WTF.

Anyway, this synth is amazing for the VA lovers. Very good for Trance and Psy-Trance. Psy basslines are a piece of cake with this synth thanks to the Punch knob.
Here is an example: https://clyp.it/zqz2vqxd
No worries Adam is long timer here i am sure he can recognize when not to feed trolls :tu:

Love this synth totally love and it was exactly what i wanted..

User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
12010 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Re: Viper (OUT NOW!)

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:20 am

kmonkey wrote:
anoise wrote:Gotta love how some people are throwing their arrogance into the developers face, justifying why they will not buy his synth. WTF.

Anyway, this synth is amazing for the VA lovers. Very good for Trance and Psy-Trance. Psy basslines are a piece of cake with this synth thanks to the Punch knob.
Here is an example: https://clyp.it/zqz2vqxd
No worries Adam is long timer here i am sure he can recognize when not to feed trolls :tu:

Love this synth totally love and it was exactly what i wanted..
Obviously some poeple here do not get the point of what i posted here and i do not want to repeat eveyrthing i alraedy posted.
FWIW i had owned a real Virus TI desktop mk1 for 9 years and a Virus KC before that.

I no longer have a need for a proper 1:1 Virus emulation and/or "that" Virus sound but i need a nice soundig Hypersaw which works nicely for me with Icarus and Electra 2.5. In Icarus it even works wth all waveforms, not just a Sawtooth.
For being a 1:1 Virus TI emulation several features like e.g. wavetables and the formant/granular feature are missing in Viper anyway.

For those that prefer using Viper there is nothing to say against that but personally i currently have no need to buy it which does not mean that Viper is a bad synth (actually it is really good at what it does). FWIW at least i directly compared Virus and Icarus and am not just talking BS based on listening to audio demos without ever having used the plugin that is talked about...
Last edited by Ingonator on Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ingo Weidner
notebook: HP Omen 15.6" / Win 10 Home 64-bit / i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM / 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD (internal) // audio: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (2nd gen)
DAWs: Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 // controller: Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

recursive one
KVRAF
3657 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: Viper (OUT NOW!)

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:49 am

Ingo, i appreciate that you are a seasoned sound designer and for certain kinds of sounds your skill and experience cant be denied. But is it really necessary to endorce tone 2 synths in every thread you may come across?

Hypersaw has been done to death in software and neither electra nor icarus are the best choise for this. Viper brings certain other important Virus features, like the FM, global unison, selectable filter saturation modes, authentic Virus distortions and vowel filter,etc.

Ofc there are other synths doing all the above and more but they dont sound like Virus :)
I hate incomplete sentences because they ...

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
13300 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Viper (OUT NOW!)

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:33 am

recursive one wrote:Ingo, i appreciate that you are a seasoned sound designer and for certain kinds of sounds your skill and experience cant be denied. But is it really necessary to endorce tone 2 synths in every thread you may come across?

Hypersaw has been done to death in software and neither electra nor icarus are the best choise for this. Viper brings certain other important Virus features, like the FM, global unison, selectable filter saturation modes, authentic Virus distortions and vowel filter,etc.

Ofc there are other synths doing all the above and more but they dont sound like Virus :)
Recursive, you know what the problem is? It's the nature of the beast itself.

I'll bring up another emulation that has nothing to do with Virus or Viper or any other supersaw synth so you can understand what I'm getting at.

Up until recently, nobody, and I mean NOBODY, did a Polymoog emulation. Oh sure, Synth Magic did that sample based Kontakt thing but please, it's not the same.

So when XILS came out with PolyM, even if some will say it's not a perfect 1 to 1 emulation is sound, it's the closest thing we have and it's damn good. Regardless of whether or not you like the Polymoog sound. That's immaterial.

With Viper, the supersaw sound has been done to death. You can't walk 2 feet without stumbling over a synth that can do a fair Virus impersonation at least on a basic level.

So even if Icarus or Serum or Rapid or whatever synth doesn't sound "exactly" like a Virus, we have enough stuff out there that, for the basic sound you're trying to emulate, is good enough. Nobody on the other end of the iPod, or whatever it is they're listening to their music on, is going to know what you've used to make that sound or care for that matter. If it's close enough, that's all that's going to matter. Otherwise, every Psytrance musician, writer, producer, or whatever, would be chucking all their soft synths and either buying a Virus or getting this. I don't see that happening because if it does, Adam's going to be able to retire to some deserted island and drink fuzzy navels for the rest of his life.

Sure, the die hard "gotta have a Virus or kill me" fans are going to need this and swear by it. But everybody else is going to be satisfied with their Rapids or Avengers or whatever because for them, close enough is close enough.

To be perfectly mercenary about this, if Viper was 64 bit I would buy it but not because, IMO, it has a sound that I can't get from anything else I have. but because it's going to sell pretty well and I can make money from selling sound libraries.

But as far as making music goes, I will not die without a Viper because the synths I already own are already close enough to get that basic sound.

The truth is, as an instrument, the Virus really isn't that "OMG off the charts" unique. At one time maybe it was. But it's not anymore. Unlike the Polymoog where this is still nothing like it.

That's the difference. And that's why you're going to run into people like Ingo who feel that they have synths that are "good enough" to make that sound.

I hope I've explained this clearly enough.

AnX
KVRAF
3004 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: Viper (OUT NOW!)

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:35 am

adamtrance wrote:
Ingonator wrote:I really thought about buying Viper but then i remembered that there were reasons why i had sold both the Virus KC and Virus TI. Besides that for Hypersaw i alraedy got options that are good enough for me.

Having the choice for 3,5,7 and 9 Hypersaws is is enough for my taste. As in Icarus you could use this with all 3 OScs and it works with all waveforms (not just Saw) you could also do Hypersquare and a lot of other "Hyper" stuff. More or less it's also similar with the "Density" feature in UltraNova while the maximum is 5 detuned waveforms (but with all 3 Oscs so you could get 15 of them).
What i miss in Virus TI and also Viper is a Stereo Hypersaw like that in Icarus.

FWIW i did not mention that Icarus is a full blown Virus TI emulation but for my own Hypersaw and mostly also Supersaw needs (with the proper single cycle waveform used) it is currently more than enough.
With the latest version Icarus now also supports FM between the 3 main Oscs (and not just with using anothe fixed "virtual" oscillator for FM).

I had checked Tone2 Electra 2.1 against my Virus TI before i sold the TI and Electra really nailed it for me. Opposing to Icarus in Electra this feature is limited to a Sawtooth. Electra also has a dedicated "Hypersquare" mode with 9 detuned Squares.

Anyway for Supersaw i also got JP6K (since 2012) and now also have jBridge to use it in Live 9 64-bit.
Sure thats perfectly fine if its good enough for you, but right now we are comparing apples to oranges, both are fruit, but totally different things. I just wanted to make sure we are not misleading people who really want an accurate Hypersaw simulation, not just "multiple waves stacked on top of each other". You can do what Icarus does with Dune2, Serum, etc, but thats why I said I dont know any other synth which simulates the Virus hypersaw like Viper does. By the way if you want stereo separations, you can do it very easily but having the Hypersaw, then add 2x Unison, and move the spread control. You get the same sound.

Also, in the Virus and Viper, if you use the Hypersaw with 9 voices, enable the sub osc so you get 9 Hypersquares, then add 8x Unison on top of it you get (9+9)*8, thats 144 oscillators playing at once with a single key press from 1 oscillator. I dont know if Icarus can do that :P
Dune2 can...

User avatar
Chris-S
KVRAF
2602 posts since 10 Nov, 2013 from Germany

Re: Viper (OUT NOW!)

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:38 am

Bug?
When changing presets some settings seem to be remembered and some are not.

Example: Put Osc1/2 key follow to zero, then switch to another preset.
Result: key follow stays on zero and all presets are no longer working right.

Host tested: Reaper32.

User avatar
Roman Wisniak
KVRist
208 posts since 28 Jul, 2003 from Poland

Re: Viper (OUT NOW!)

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:11 am

wagtunes wrote: The truth is, as an instrument, the Virus really isn't that "OMG off the charts" unique. At one time maybe it was. But it's not anymore.
This is true for you. I respect your opinion but having all modern vsti's I couldn't find anything as unique sounding as Virus. In fact I've waited 15 years for sth like Viper. :)

Just read this article taking into account Virus comparision to modern vsti's:

https://synthmorph.com/blogs/news/acces ... synthmorph
Last edited by Roman Wisniak on Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
DAW StudioOne 4 Audio Interface Presonus 1818VSL with Universal Control 2.7 CPU Intel Core i9-7920X @4400 OS Win8.1 64Bit / OSX (Hackintosh) HighSierra.

kingtubby
KVRian
879 posts since 1 Mar, 2003 from Duston, NN5

Re: Viper (OUT NOW!)

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:12 am

Chris-S wrote:Bug?
When changing presets some settings seem to be remembered and some are not.

Example: Put Osc1/2 key follow to zero, then switch to another preset.
Result: key follow stays on zero and all presets are no longer working right.

Host tested: Reaper32.
Yes, same with the mod matrix. For example, if you set a source and destination in one of the mod slots it will persist when changing presets, unless the preset uses that slot. Try it with slot 6 as it doesn't get used much in the presets and the settings you make will remain in place.
γνῶθι σαὐτόν

chk071
KVRAF
17021 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Viper (OUT NOW!)

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:18 am

AnX wrote:
adamtrance wrote:
Ingonator wrote:I really thought about buying Viper but then i remembered that there were reasons why i had sold both the Virus KC and Virus TI. Besides that for Hypersaw i alraedy got options that are good enough for me.

Having the choice for 3,5,7 and 9 Hypersaws is is enough for my taste. As in Icarus you could use this with all 3 OScs and it works with all waveforms (not just Saw) you could also do Hypersquare and a lot of other "Hyper" stuff. More or less it's also similar with the "Density" feature in UltraNova while the maximum is 5 detuned waveforms (but with all 3 Oscs so you could get 15 of them).
What i miss in Virus TI and also Viper is a Stereo Hypersaw like that in Icarus.

FWIW i did not mention that Icarus is a full blown Virus TI emulation but for my own Hypersaw and mostly also Supersaw needs (with the proper single cycle waveform used) it is currently more than enough.
With the latest version Icarus now also supports FM between the 3 main Oscs (and not just with using anothe fixed "virtual" oscillator for FM).

I had checked Tone2 Electra 2.1 against my Virus TI before i sold the TI and Electra really nailed it for me. Opposing to Icarus in Electra this feature is limited to a Sawtooth. Electra also has a dedicated "Hypersquare" mode with 9 detuned Squares.

Anyway for Supersaw i also got JP6K (since 2012) and now also have jBridge to use it in Live 9 64-bit.
Sure thats perfectly fine if its good enough for you, but right now we are comparing apples to oranges, both are fruit, but totally different things. I just wanted to make sure we are not misleading people who really want an accurate Hypersaw simulation, not just "multiple waves stacked on top of each other". You can do what Icarus does with Dune2, Serum, etc, but thats why I said I dont know any other synth which simulates the Virus hypersaw like Viper does. By the way if you want stereo separations, you can do it very easily but having the Hypersaw, then add 2x Unison, and move the spread control. You get the same sound.

Also, in the Virus and Viper, if you use the Hypersaw with 9 voices, enable the sub osc so you get 9 Hypersquares, then add 8x Unison on top of it you get (9+9)*8, thats 144 oscillators playing at once with a single key press from 1 oscillator. I dont know if Icarus can do that :P
Dune2 can...
Yes. It won't sound like a Virus though. Actually, it's pretty far off sounding like one.

User avatar
murnau
KVRAF
5563 posts since 13 Jan, 2005 from Arkham Asylum

Re: Viper (OUT NOW!)

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:31 am

Roman Wisniak wrote:
anoise wrote:Gotta love how some people are throwing their arrogance into the developers face, justifying why they will not buy his synth. WTF.

Anyway, this synth is amazing for the VA lovers. Very good for Trance and Psy-Trance. Psy basslines are a piece of cake with this synth thanks to the Punch knob.
Here is an example: https://clyp.it/zqz2vqxd
+1
+1

I just demo it really long this afternoon. Works flawless (also bridged in FL 64). Amazing approach on the Virus sound. I have a Virus Snow here and also a PoCo Virus and i don't think that one could hear any difference in a mix.

This is a great virtual if you want the Virus sound itb. :tu:
Whoever wants music instead of noise, joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of gold, creative work instead of business, passion instead of foolery, finds no home in this trivial world of ours.

Return to “Instruments”