Waves Scheps Omni Channel

[Daimonicon]

The channel plug seems to be all the rage these days. I notice that most of them share a few basic components An EQ, Compressor, De-esser, a Limiter, and a Gate. Not necessarily in that order. Eventide's Ultra-Channel includes all that and more as well as the much flaunted ability to re-order components. What's cool they gave it away for free a few years ago.( now $249 ) All most any DAW's include stock units that cover all those bases an-n-dd-dd, You can re-order them to taste without cycle sapping animation with the click of a mouse.

This channel strip improves on the Ultrachannel (I also got it for free, many years back) for a few reasons.

You can mix 'n' match any plugins, but there are advantages to also having channel strips. You can choose whichever you prefer, or, like many others, you could choose the right tools for the right situations

The advantage with a channel strip you don't need to load more than one plugin and do all the necessary work on it. It's smoother with a strip.

[digitalboytn]

It's smoother with a strip.

Are you referring to sex or music ?

[wagtunes]

Scheps all over this one. Probably one of the best pop/rock songs I've ever done. I'm pleased with the results and I love the cool vocal sounds I got out of this. Piano rocks. Everything sounds great.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -on-backup

Ditch the robot and get a real singer in to do the job....

That robot is not going to emotionally connect with anybody....

We don't really need Scheps or any of the other crap out there...

What we need is better songs and better performances

This is the point in the play where I normally get all defensive and turn the thread into a total train wreck.

But that was 2017.

Thank you for your critique. Have a nice day.

Can I ask you a serious question?
I have heard many of your songs on this site and you definitely have a gift for song craft (pop and otherwise). And you are also obviously very prolific (I would venture that many here who criticize your work probably don't finish much of anything, and clearly they are not as brave when it comes to being vulnerable and sharing their work).
Anyway, my question is: why exactly do you use those synthesized vocals so extensively? Is it an aesthetic choice and this a sound you are trying to pioneer out of conviction, or are these intended to be for demo purposes, so you can have your melodies and vocals heard and maybe they will be replaced with a human vocalist later? Or is there some other reason? Sorry, I appreciate your musical contributions (especially in light of the fact most others are literally all talk) and I am just curious.

I felt this question deserved an honest reply. This is going to be kind of lengthy so grab a cup of something.

I started writing songs in 1977. Last year alone I completed 11 CDs. You do the math as to how much music I must have written in 40 years.

When I first started and had no choice BUT to sing all my material, people would literally say to me, "Good God, please don't sing." Yeah, it was pretty awful. But I always believed that the song would sell itself regardless of how bad the vocal was. And to a degree I was right. In a ridiculously competitive industry, I did manage to get one song published and even fought over by two different publishers and also got some decent recognition is several songwriting contests. Plus, I've had tons of positive comments about my music over the years.

But it still doesn't alter the fact that I can't sing. And at age 60, I REALLY can't sing. In fact, the track I did before this one, I actually DID sing because the Vocaloid vocals just didn't work at all due to the phrasing I wanted to pull off. But it didn't matter. My voice is so wretched the song sounds like total crap anyway.

At least Vocaloid sings on tune
At least Vocaloid's voice doesn't crack
At least Vocaloid can hit high notes without sounding like Tiny Tim.

I use Vocaloid for one reason and one reason only. I can't stand the sound of my own voice. Anything would sound better to me. Even them.

Now, why don't I just go hire a singer? Too many reasons to get into. But the top ones.

No money
No contacts
No friends who can sing
I don't play well with others

Now, a guy over at Gearslutz says he knows two country singers who he says would sing my last song (it's a country song) for free. Just send him the track with and without vocals and he'll send me back the dry vocal to mix anyway I like. I'm going to take him up on the offer as I don't have to shell out money and don't have to even work with these people.

So the ultimate answer to your question is this. I use Vocaloid...

1. So maybe somebody will hear the "song" and want to record it.

2. I actually like the way they sound a hell of a letter better than my own wretched singing.

Don't get me wrong. Vocaloid isn't perfect. There are plenty of things about it I don't like. Working with it isn't easy. Some words you can't get to sound good no matter what you try. The change in timber from one note to another, in certain places, is not natural at all and quite noticeable. And of course there's that overall "robot" quality that takes some getting used to. I have. I can listen to my music done with these and not want to turn it off. And since I ultimately make music for myself, that's all I really care about.

Posting that track was really just to show off the plugin, which really inspired a lot of the overall sound you hear on this track.

I will be using Scheps Omni Channel a lot.

I hope I answered your question. Feel free to ask anything else you like.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

The channel plug seems to be all the rage these days. I notice that most of them share a few basic components An EQ, Compressor, De-esser, a Limiter, and a Gate. Not necessarily in that order. Eventide's Ultra-Channel includes all that and more as well as the much flaunted ability to re-order components. What's cool they gave it away for free a few years ago.( now $249 ) All most any DAW's include stock units that cover all those bases an-n-dd-dd, You can re-order them to taste without cycle sapping animation with the click of a mouse.

This channel strip improves on the Ultrachannel (I also got it for free, many years back) for a few reasons.

You can mix 'n' match any plugins, but there are advantages to also having channel strips. You can choose whichever you prefer, or, like many others, you could choose the right tools for the right situations

The advantage with a channel strip you don't need to load more than one plugin and do all the necessary work on it. It's smoother with a strip.

I'm not sure why you included me in the quoted text

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Scheps all over this one. Probably one of the best pop/rock songs I've ever done. I'm pleased with the results and I love the cool vocal sounds I got out of this. Piano rocks. Everything sounds great.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -on-backup

Ditch the robot and get a real singer in to do the job....

That robot is not going to emotionally connect with anybody....

We don't really need Scheps or any of the other crap out there...

What we need is better songs and better performances

This is the point in the play where I normally get all defensive and turn the thread into a total train wreck.

But that was 2017.

Thank you for your critique. Have a nice day.

Can I ask you a serious question?
I have heard many of your songs on this site and you definitely have a gift for song craft (pop and otherwise). And you are also obviously very prolific (I would venture that many here who criticize your work probably don't finish much of anything, and clearly they are not as brave when it comes to being vulnerable and sharing their work).
Anyway, my question is: why exactly do you use those synthesized vocals so extensively? Is it an aesthetic choice and this a sound you are trying to pioneer out of conviction, or are these intended to be for demo purposes, so you can have your melodies and vocals heard and maybe they will be replaced with a human vocalist later? Or is there some other reason? Sorry, I appreciate your musical contributions (especially in light of the fact most others are literally all talk) and I am just curious.

I felt this question deserved an honest reply. This is going to be kind of lengthy so grab a cup of something.

I started writing songs in 1977. Last year alone I completed 11 CDs. You do the math as to how much music I must have written in 40 years.

When I first started and had no choice BUT to sing all my material, people would literally say to me, "Good God, please don't sing." Yeah, it was pretty awful. But I always believed that the song would sell itself regardless of how bad the vocal was. And to a degree I was right. In a ridiculously competitive industry, I did manage to get one song published and even fought over by two different publishers and also got some decent recognition is several songwriting contests. Plus, I've had tons of positive comments about my music over the years.

But it still doesn't alter the fact that I can't sing. And at age 60, I REALLY can't sing. In fact, the track I did before this one, I actually DID sing because the Vocaloid vocals just didn't work at all due to the phrasing I wanted to pull off. But it didn't matter. My voice is so wretched the song sounds like total crap anyway.

At least Vocaloid sings on tune
At least Vocaloid's voice doesn't crack
At least Vocaloid can hit high notes without sounding like Tiny Tim.

I use Vocaloid for one reason and one reason only. I can't stand the sound of my own voice. Anything would sound better to me. Even them.

Now, why don't I just go hire a singer? Too many reasons to get into. But the top ones.

No money
No contacts
No friends who can sing
I don't play well with others

Now, a guy over at Gearslutz says he knows two country singers who he says would sing my last song (it's a country song) for free. Just send him the track with and without vocals and he'll send me back the dry vocal to mix anyway I like. I'm going to take him up on the offer as I don't have to shell out money and don't have to even work with these people.

So the ultimate answer to your question is this. I use Vocaloid...

1. So maybe somebody will hear the "song" and want to record it.

2. I actually like the way they sound a hell of a letter better than my own wretched singing.

Don't get me wrong. Vocaloid isn't perfect. There are plenty of things about it I don't like. Working with it isn't easy. Some words you can't get to sound good no matter what you try. The change in timber from one note to another, in certain places, is not natural at all and quite noticeable. And of course there's that overall "robot" quality that takes some getting used to. I have. I can listen to my music done with these and not want to turn it off. And since I ultimately make music for myself, that's all I really care about.

Posting that track was really just to show off the plugin, which really inspired a lot of the overall sound you hear on this track.

I will be using Scheps Omni Channel a lot.

I hope I answered your question. Feel free to ask anything else you like.

Crafting music/art, and then adding Vocaloid, is like a gourmet chef dousing his creations in ketchup.

If you are making music solely for your own pleasure, you can do what you want. However, you seem to take every opportunity to post your music in random threads, while completely dismissing the overwhelming feedback from most other members that Vocaloid is undermining any enjoyment they get from the track (I won't even listen anymore, which is a shame because your music is often good)

It's not even just the vomit-inducing tone that I have an issue with - it's the phrasing. Having never used such a software abomination, I am not sure how much of that is under your control. If you can affect that part of the equation, either within the software, or in editing, then that would make a difference.

No one is expecting you to be able to sing, but I am betting that with more effort, and use of the amazing software tools we have available to us e.g Melodyne, Auto-tune etc, that you will likely get a much more enjoyable result, even if it is a flawed performance.

And, of course, there's always instrumentals. Vocals will often distract from bad composition and flawed musical performance, but you have some composition chops. Melodies don't need to be sung to be effective

If Vocaloid were a human session singer you'd never hire it. So how about not taking a crap all over your own work

[wagtunes]

I put out a call at Gearslutz to see if somebody will sing this.

My wife loved it (she does NOT love everything I do and hates Vocaloid with a passion) and I can tell by the look on her face that she was shocked as shit that I even wrote this. I think with the proper presentation and a good agent, I've got a hit on my hands. And I don't say that about many of my songs if any.

I'm gonna take one last shot at this to see if I can't make a dent in this business.

Sorry for hijacking the thread. Scheps is great. Glad I got it.

I now return you to your regular discussion.

[gas pump]

Same thing could have been said for Autotune, but people still keep using it in creative ways. It really doesn't matter if everyone likes it or not, there are those that do enjoy it.

I'm not much for the talkbox, vocoder or vocal synth type sounds being the primary lyrics, but it's a stylistic choice and not the rules governed by the KVR musician police.

I would rather hear something new and futuristic, then the same old recycle and rebirth of a rock song, even with a human voice. They call it classic rock for a reason.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Scheps all over this one. Probably one of the best pop/rock songs I've ever done. I'm pleased with the results and I love the cool vocal sounds I got out of this. Piano rocks. Everything sounds great.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -on-backup

Would make a typical late 70s TV intro.

Reminds me of The littelist Hobo kind of thing, or with more guitar an 80s hairband

[Karma_tba]

Scheps all over this one. Probably one of the best pop/rock songs I've ever done. I'm pleased with the results and I love the cool vocal sounds I got out of this. Piano rocks. Everything sounds great.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -on-backup

Would make a typical late 70s TV intro.

Reminds me of The littelist Hobo kind of thing, or with more guitar an 80s hairband

Scheps all over this one...that phrase sounds like a cliche for slathered in sh*t. Try using a "pro chain" by someone who is at least producing the same genre. Elton John produced by Dre...naww

[wagtunes]

Scheps all over this one. Probably one of the best pop/rock songs I've ever done. I'm pleased with the results and I love the cool vocal sounds I got out of this. Piano rocks. Everything sounds great.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -on-backup

Would make a typical late 70s TV intro.

Reminds me of The littelist Hobo kind of thing, or with more guitar an 80s hairband

Scheps all over this one...that phrase sounds like a cliche for slathered in sh*t. Try using a "pro chain" by someone who is at least producing the same genre. Elton John produced by Dre...naww

I'd love to respond to this but I have no idea what your point is.

[Karma_tba]

Scheps all over this one. Probably one of the best pop/rock songs I've ever done. I'm pleased with the results and I love the cool vocal sounds I got out of this. Piano rocks. Everything sounds great.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -on-backup

Would make a typical late 70s TV intro.

Reminds me of The littelist Hobo kind of thing, or with more guitar an 80s hairband

Scheps all over this one...that phrase sounds like a cliche for slathered in sh*t. Try using a "pro chain" by someone who is at least producing the same genre. Elton John produced by Dre...naww

I'd love to respond to this but I have no idea what your point is.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Same thing could have been said for Autotune, but people still keep using it in creative ways. It really doesn't matter if everyone likes it or not, there are those that do enjoy it.

Autotune can be as distasteful as it gets, but it can also be pretty unnoticeable if that is the intention.

Of course it doesn't matter whether others enjoy it, except if it is kinda important to you that others enjoy it. One doesn't post their music all over the place hoping that it won't be enjoyed. Those who really aren't that bothered whether people like their music don't tend to post

I'm not much for the talkbox, vocoder or vocal synth type sounds being the primary lyrics, but it's a stylistic choice and not the rules governed by the KVR musician police.

In many cases it can be a stylistic choice. However, in this case, it is not. On more than one occasion, Wag's has explained that he uses it because he cannot sing i.e What he believes to be the lesser of two evils.

In Wags' case, Vocaloid is, more often than not, totally at odds with the music style, and it just doesn't serve the compositions.

Either way, nobody is policing anyone. All people are doing is telling him how much their enjoyment of his music is spoiled by his use of something that is only there as a placeholder.

I would rather hear something new and futuristic, then the same old recycle and rebirth of a rock song, even with a human voice. They call it classic rock for a reason.

Well, if you are familiar with Wags' catalogue, he actually spends a lot of time paying tribute to the acts that have inspired him, through his life. I don't even think he would claim that fusing prog. rock and vocaloid is futuristic. Again, he'll just tell you it's there because he can't find anyone else to sing for him.

And Wags: Perhaps you could look for vocalists on Fiverr

[wagtunes]

Scheps all over this one. Probably one of the best pop/rock songs I've ever done. I'm pleased with the results and I love the cool vocal sounds I got out of this. Piano rocks. Everything sounds great.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -on-backup

Would make a typical late 70s TV intro.

Reminds me of The littelist Hobo kind of thing, or with more guitar an 80s hairband

Scheps all over this one...that phrase sounds like a cliche for slathered in sh*t. Try using a "pro chain" by someone who is at least producing the same genre. Elton John produced by Dre...naww

I've deleted your nasty comment from Soundcloud and have blocked you from making anymore nasty comments.

[Karma_tba]

Scheps all over this one. Probably one of the best pop/rock songs I've ever done. I'm pleased with the results and I love the cool vocal sounds I got out of this. Piano rocks. Everything sounds great.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -on-backup

Would make a typical late 70s TV intro.

Reminds me of The littelist Hobo kind of thing, or with more guitar an 80s hairband

Scheps all over this one...that phrase sounds like a cliche for slathered in sh*t. Try using a "pro chain" by someone who is at least producing the same genre. Elton John produced by Dre...naww

I'd love to respond to this but I have no idea what your point is.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

[wagtunes]

Same thing could have been said for Autotune, but people still keep using it in creative ways. It really doesn't matter if everyone likes it or not, there are those that do enjoy it.

Autotune can be as distasteful as it gets, but it can also be pretty unnoticeable if that is the intention.

Of course it doesn't matter whether others enjoy it, except if it is kinda important to you that others enjoy it. One doesn't post their music all over the place hoping that it won't be enjoyed. Those who really aren't that bothered don't tend to post

I'm not much for the talkbox, vocoder or vocal synth type sounds being the primary lyrics, but it's a stylistic choice and not the rules governed by the KVR musician police.

In many cases it can be a stylistic choice. However, in this case, it is not. On more than one occasion, Wag's has explained that he uses it because he cannot sing i.e What he believes to be the lesser of two evils.

In Wags' case, Vocaloid is, more often than not, totally at odds with the music style, and it just doesn't serve the compositions.

Either way, nobody is policing anyone. All people are doing is telling him how much their enjoyment of his music is spoiled by his use of something that is only their as a placeholder.

I would rather hear something new and futuristic, then the same old recycle and rebirth of a rock song, even with a human voice. They call it classic rock for a reason.

Well, if you are familiar with Wags' catalogue, he actually spends a lot of time paying tribute to the acts that have inspired him, through his life. I don't even think he would claim that fusing prog. rock and vocaloid is futuristic. Again, he'll just tell you it's there because he can't find anyone else to sing for him.

And Wags: Perhaps you could look for vocalists on Fiverr

Thanks for keeping this civil. FWIW, nobody has to tell me that Vocaloid is a means to an ends and a temporary solution. God has a sense of humor because he gave me talent to write and no talent to sing. And I'm too poor to hire "good" singers. Fiverr is a crap shoot. Anybody willing to sing a song that requires tons of work can't be all that great. Plus, experience has told me that you get what you pay for and sometimes, not even.

In short, my past experiences in this business has left me to the point where I just don't play well with others and I openly admit this. I've been burned way too many times by the crooks out there.

I'm fortunate that, to a degree, I can do all of this myself. Sure, I'd love to be married to a gal who has a killer rock voice and loves the business as much as I do. But I'm not. I have a wonderful church going wife who has a sweet voice, sings in the choir but has absolutely ZERO desire to be singing my rock tunes. And I wouldn't want her to. It would only lead to problems between us.

I'm kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. My voice is wretched and Vocaloid, well, is Vocaloid. Either way I'm screwed. Vocaloid is the lesser of two evils by a TON. And as I get older, my voice gets worse and worse.

What do you want me to say? It is what it is. I can't change it. If I was independently wealthy, I'd go hire a band and a singer and pay them a yearly retainer to do all my songs. I'd make my own albums and sell them through my own label. I'd hire the best producers money can buy. I'd literally buy myself a career. But I'm not. I'm poor. I'm on a pension (my wife's) and soon, social security. We are just about paying the bills thanks to our property taxes being so outrageous.

In short, I'm doing the best that I can in life and with my music.