Sluggish/sloooow GUI Bitwig 2.23 macOS Sierra 10.12.6

[kdejaeger]

Magical thinking, I like your vibe though. I really hope they won't remain locked in to cairo in the future.

[antic604]

Magical thinking, I like your vibe though. I really hope they won't remain locked in to cairo in the future.

What do you mean? Nick Allen (one of the Bitwig's devs) said they've doing OpenGL GUI for Bitwig and it will be implemented sooner or later:

The GUI is currently rendered entirely on the CPU using Cairo graphics library. The performance problems are not to do with our use of Java at all but just the shear number of pixels that have to be painted by the CPU and some areas where we haven't optimized the painting as much as we could (by reducing the painting to just the areas that needs updating and not painting layers that don't need to be for example). However, we are also working on offloading much of the painting to the GPU via OpenGL (at least for all the fast moving stuff like meters, oscilloscope and arranger/note editor). This will make a HUGE difference but I can't say when it will be ready - but rest assured we are aware of the issue and actively working to fix it by making use of the GPU in the long run. So the good news is we should be able to fix this and make it very snappy assuming you have a decent graphics card.

[kdejaeger]

I understood that differently: cairo over opengl, which will lock them into cairo even more. So the opengl extensions that cairo provides. Redesigning how you use cairo with opengl, which is quite hard compared to other frameworks that have opengl from the ground up.

I noticed they also use lwjgl a lot. Seems a good baseline. I don't know how these things are interwoven. Only the bitwig devs can clear that up. I find the bitwig engineers are wizards at combining the frameworks. And I personally like the Java API a lot. Looking at the Java project how push 2 controller was integrated.

[Hanz Meyzer]

Where do i find the api docs of that java api?

[kdejaeger]

I believe it comes with the installation.

[aquilyzer]

...With all due respect I don't see the added value of native instruments, because there are so many good alternatives, from expensive to free...

Polyphonic modulators, nothing more to say...

[Enrize]

The GUI is currently rendered entirely on the CPU using Cairo graphics library. The performance problems are not to do with our use of Java at all but just the shear number of pixels that have to be painted by the CPU and some areas where we haven't optimized the painting as much as we could (by reducing the painting to just the areas that needs updating and not painting layers that don't need to be for example). However, we are also working on offloading much of the painting to the GPU via OpenGL (at least for all the fast moving stuff like meters, oscilloscope and arranger/note editor). This will make a HUGE difference but I can't say when it will be ready - but rest assured we are aware of the issue and actively working to fix it by making use of the GPU in the long run. So the good news is we should be able to fix this and make it very snappy assuming you have a decent graphics card.

Please see how i suffer...



I literally got 1-3 FPS with maxed Macbook Pro (2017). The audio is playing normal, cpu meter is about 50%. Its just the UI. And before someone will say that something wrong on my end, Logic Pro X 10.4 demo song (which have about 130 channels) running perfectly fine.

I'd really appreciate if you'll take care of this problem with highest priority. Thank you!

[pdxindy]

They should ditch that new synth and the philosophy of adding it behind that. Who is waiting for Yet Another Useless Native Synth?
Wasted resources...
While they are working on yet another invention of the wheel, people are turning away because of lags, other unnecessary problems or missing crucial features.

There are so many other (better) synths out there.
There are not so many cool DAW's like BWS out there.

Priorities...
People buy/upgrade BWS for the DAW not for its instruments.

Normally, I kind of agree about native synths... but I will be using Phase-4 and am happy to have it. The thing with native Bitwig synths is that modulators can be per voice. This is a significant feature. Nearly every parameter in Phase-4 can be modulated. Add in what is an unlimited polyphonic mod matrix and that is some serious sound design potential.

Then there is the DAW level unison system. Phase-4 can have up to 5 voice unison and any parameter can have values spread across stacked voices. You can also set parameter values per stacked voice. This is similar functionality like Dune 2 but a whole lot easier to use. That again provides some serious sound design capability.

Finally, Phase-4 offers full MPE capability which not many VST synths currently do.

[kdejaeger]

Enrize, how frustrating, can you share your project with me? I'd like to see if this happens to me too before I buy my license .

[Enrize]

Enrize, how frustrating, can you share your project with me? I'd like to see if this happens to me too before I buy my license .

No, sorry. This is a commercial project for a client (which i'm unable to finish because of this!!!).

I must admit i won't extend my Bitwig license until this will be resolved.

[kdejaeger]

How does it behave then on a 1k or 2k monitor?

[Enrize]

Its better of course.

[ejgallego]

Please see how i suffer...



I literally got 1-3 FPS with maxed Macbook Pro (2017). The audio is playing normal, cpu meter is about 50%. Its just the UI. And before someone will say that something wrong on my end, Logic Pro X 10.4 demo song (which have about 130 channels) running perfectly fine.

I'd really appreciate if you'll take care of this problem with highest priority. Thank you!

Indeed, good example thanks! Here Cairo is bound to struggle, in particular in OSX, but on the other hands the devs should be able to eventually fix it, knowing that they use Cairo is a kind of relief because that alone explains the bad performance in OSX, in fact, I'd dare to say that BW devs have done a pretty amazing job given what the tool is.

[Enrize]

I'd dare to say that BW devs have done a pretty amazing job given what the tool is.

Indeed, i'm not saying otherwise. But the problem arise and require to take priority action. I'm not the only one who suffer from this.

Its better to deal with it asap before the rumour will spread that Bitwig is unusable on big screens with large projects.

[ejgallego]

I'd dare to say that BW devs have done a pretty amazing job given what the tool is.

Indeed, i'm not saying otherwise. But the problem arise and require to take priority action. I'm not the only one who suffer from this.

Its better to deal with it asap before the rumour will spread that Bitwig is unusable on big screens with large projects.

Totally agree, well, at least we understand what the culprit is. Barring some further optimization from BW the only choice to help Cairo is to reduce resolution

This is more of a geeky curiosity but I'd be very curious to know if drawing is better on Windows and above all, on Linux, as Cairo is supposed to perform better on Linux + NVIDIA [but yeah, I guess testing on Linux will be hard for many people due to plugins] Does anyone suffering from screen draw problems have a multi-platform project around?