The Dune3 feature requests thread

[Cinebient]

I listen to that example several times and i don´t really hear something special there. It´s fast but it really loose definition as well. So snappy for you might be lack of punch with definition for me
I mean it´s something the average 5 dollar app can do these days. And developers might go back to their own things and stop emulations now.
But you know where this discussion ends....in an endless loop.

[chk071]

I mean it something the average 5 dollar app can do these days.

Ok. Then post an example. Just because it sounds the same to YOU doesn't mean it sounds the same. But, don't take it from me, ask people like Urs Heckmann, who worked and researched for years, to get that little extra bit of detail, and "realism".

And, i frankly have no idea what has gotten into Moog to devalue their analog synths by making $5 iPad emulations, which probably don't even have ZDF filters. Rather gadget territory for me.

[recursive one]

I'm not familiar the Legend filters but if they are similar to Monark (I guess they are supposed to be) it would indeed be a welcome addition to Dune. [/size]

I'd be interested to know what you think about it. There are demos available for both. My opinion is that the Legend filters are good, but don't quite reach the wild regions Monark gets to. I made this a while ago, and posted it in another forum to show how snappy the filter and envelope in Monark is:

https://soundcloud.com/chk-sound/monark-snap

Wasn't quite able to get the same out of Legend, in fact, it kind of showed the issues i had with Dune 2 as well. IMO. YMMV. Don't-hack-me-to-pieces-Synapse-fanbois. Etc. Actually, i must say that i can't even put my finger on what exactly the difference is. There's either something about the resonance, or the envelopes. Or both (?).

Nonetheless i'd say that the filters in Legend are pretty good, and they'd make a great addition to Dune 2, of course. Dunno if they'd automagically would make it so much warmer though.

Cool sound, you could make a hi-tech psytrance track of the second half

Actually I stay away from demoing Legend cause I think it is aboslutely redundant for me. I have Diva, Monark and Repro so I see no point in getting Legend. The video demos found on youtube show that it sounds a lot like Dune (I guess because same people made the presets) but with a bit stronger and smoother sound. Well, may download a demo one day, just out of curiosity.

[chk071]

Actually I stay away from demoing Legend cause I think it is aboslutely redundant for me. I have Diva, Monark and Repro so I see no point in getting Legend.

Was the same for me. As i own Monark, i just didn't see the point. They do sound different though, Legend is cleaner, and less saturated than Monark. As a comparison video suggested, it's probably closer to a late generation Minimoog, while Monark is closer to an early generation one. That doesn't explain the difference in snappiness though. Anyway, to each his own, just my opinion about it.

[Cinebient]

I mean it something the average 5 dollar app can do these days.

Ok. Then post an example. Just because it sounds the same to YOU doesn't mean it sounds the same. But, don't take it from me, ask people like Urs Heckmann, who worked and researched for years, to get that little extra bit of detail, and "realism".

And, i frankly have no idea what has gotten into Moog to devalue their analog synths by making $5 iPad emulations, which probably don't even have ZDF filters. Rather gadget territory for me.

I´m a customer in both markets and will be also in the future. My comment might be a bit to harsh here indeed. But when i play with these synths and hear them with the same tools i just can say that some (especially of the latest) apps sounds as good as these more expensive plug-ins.
But the market is different and the workflows too.
Examples are The Moog apps, Zeeon (Beepstreet), Korg and a few others. They sound as good as desktop tools....fact for me. Where i will give most desktop tools big pro is the overall workflow, integration in major DAW´s as well as included FX and preset management.
So i don´t mean apps are better because they cost less.
I also don´t care about how accurate an emulation is since we now even 2 analog of the same Model are not the same. If it sounds good, it sounds good.
I apologize for my harsh tone......i´ve drunken too much yesterday
Why some developers prefer iOS over desktop is already written several times indeed and the developers also said it.
In Moog case they just have not the resources to support these many hard- and software combinations (but of course it might also be that plug-ins could cut their hardware sales maybe more, i don´t know).
Others stated piracy is a problem, GUI and some they might have not the budget to set up their own stores for distribution etc. etc.
Like it or not but the iOS apps are just great if you just want to pull them out and play a synth!
If i need 10 instances and do a lot automations and want to add a lot high quality FX it might be not so good.
But we wills see when the first U-he app comes out
I see it simple.....they just go where the better market is in terms of support and development against profit.

[chk071]

I apologize for my harsh tone......i´ve drunken too much yesterday

No worries.

And, i agree of course that, in general, iOS apps can sound as good as desktop plugins. After all, there's also example of apps/plugins which have been ported to both platforms, like Waldorf Nave, and Cakewalk Z3TA. The iOS devices still have a limited processing power though, so, developers surely have to code their apps taking that into account. Nave for example is a straight digital synth, no circuit modelling or anything going on, same should apply to Z3TA. I don't know what Moog did with their Minimoog app, and, without trying it out, i also can't judge on that finally. I just can say that, for simple sounds, it is almost indistinguishable from the real thing in the sound demos, while, for more extreme sounds, the differences seem more apparent. How relevant that is to you is another thing, of course. I think for a $5 app, it sounds absolutely fantastic, of course.

Already posted this in another thread:

[Cinebient]

I apologize for my harsh tone......i´ve drunken too much yesterday

No worries.

And, i agree of course that, in general, iOS apps can sound as good as desktop plugins. After all, there's also example of apps/plugins which have been ported to both platforms, like Waldorf Nave, and Cakewalk Z3TA. The iOS devices still have a limited processing power though, so, developers surely have to code their apps taking that into account. Nave for example is a straight digital synth, no circuit modelling or anything going on, same should apply to Z3TA. I don't know what Moog did with their Minimoog app, and, without trying it out, i also can't judge on that finally. I just can say that, for simple sounds, it is almost indistinguishable from the real thing in the sound demos, while, for more extreme sounds, the differences seem more apparent. How relevant that is to you is another thing, of course. I think for a $5 app, it sounds absolutely fantastic, of course.

Already posted this in another thread:

I saw that and since the Moog app is now no more intro price it´s $15 which is still a good value.
But also if people want to buy more presets you have to do that via IAP in a lot iOS app....here as well.
Compare that to the average desktop synth where you often got 500 or more presets and maybe even a FX version (like The Legend) on top. If the plug-in is now even on sale you might get a better value here. So it´s all relative. But crowd mostly see one number first and go mad over it.
Do i wish Moog would release this as VST/AU...YES!!
It´s indeed quite CPU intense and even the latest iPads can´t handle much instances of it with a usable sample buffer and it really drain the battery in 1 hour to empty. That is the price that there is no loss in quality.
The side effect is that i now consider to buy The Legend (i demoed it 2 times) because i like the tone of the app so much but then they have different things, pro and contra and different FX etc.
They are just 2 different synths. But i seldom had a synth where it gone so fast and easy to create my own presets and i really had joy.
Even my still favorite synth P900 was close to be on iOS but Moog killed the market for him and so i though damn you Moog
But Model D ( and i really don´t like the GUI) is really fantastic, offer 14 bit midi, saving and loading different midi cc mappings, MPE, some great FX, a simple arp, the extra LFO which goes to audio rate and i know they will update it regulary and it will always work with the latest OS. I can´t say that about P900 f.e. which i love the sound so much and is for me personally the only synth where i feel that extra punch and balls i see in all these analog vs. software but i´m not sure if it has a future.
I mean in this video i hear clearly differences in the resonance, FM but especially in the overdrive where all software synths seems to suck. Not that it would be really usable beside in a live solo performance maybe to impress people.

[Cinebient]

I'm not familiar the Legend filters but if they are similar to Monark (I guess they are supposed to be) it would indeed be a welcome addition to Dune. [/size]

I'd be interested to know what you think about it. There are demos available for both. My opinion is that the Legend filters are good, but don't quite reach the wild regions Monark gets to. I made this a while ago, and posted it in another forum to show how snappy the filter and envelope in Monark is:

https://soundcloud.com/chk-sound/monark-snap

Wasn't quite able to get the same out of Legend, in fact, it kind of showed the issues i had with Dune 2 as well. IMO. YMMV. Don't-hack-me-to-pieces-Synapse-fanbois. Etc. Actually, i must say that i can't even put my finger on what exactly the difference is. There's either something about the resonance, or the envelopes. Or both (?).

Nonetheless i'd say that the filters in Legend are pretty good, and they'd make a great addition to Dune 2, of course. Dunno if they'd automagically would make it so much warmer though.

O.k. since i´m still bored i tested it again with as close as possible sound with Monark, Dune 2, Repro, Dagger, P900 and even ES2 (Logic).
While Monark i think also that for this specific thing Monark is better than Dune 2 if you really go fast it´s not better with slower attacks. And all others i tested are quite the same or better for me. Dagger is still the king. It always seems to have definition and a kind of punch or snap.
Monark seems really good if you open the cutoff but loose for me if i play f.e. deep kicks with 1/64 arp at 120bpm.
I mean they all are great anyway and again i´m surprised how freaking in your face this old Logic ES2 can be. It has some nice character in a class of it´s own.
And while i was digging around this fast arp happened to create some really fatness with P900 no other could get here and it still had some kind of beating.
P900 is sometimes really hard to control since there is also a slightly randomize in the envelopes going on. It might behave sometimes like real hardware....out of control
I wonder if FX tools like the Cableguys stuff couldn´t do the same . It´s all more or less how fast and in which shape open and/or close the amplitude or filter.
A thing i like in P900 is also the extreme great tube saturation per voice which can create really
a kind of saturation/distortion on high resonance which does sounds so detailed and pronounced i miss in all other kind of saturation/distortion. Not sure where the magic here happens but having this very fast reacting saturation depending on the amplitude and envelope give a kind of real meaty punch for me. This kind of uummmpff
Ha, i should take a break from synth. i almost forget to eat and drink......

[Armagibbon]

Best feature for dune 3?... a release date

Yall know it's gonna be top!

[EnGee]

I'm sure Dune 3 will be a hit no matter how the GUI or design is! Well, almost sure as I'm positive.

I leave the technical features for the developer(s) to decide as I trust their taste/knowledge more than myself

However, I have few notes about offers!

1. An upgrade path from Dune 2
2. Dune 3 license becomes NFR if given Antidote RE for free (like The Legend)

Dune 3 might be the only synth I buy during 2018 (really!) as Reason's synths and other Rack Extensions cover about 90% and I still have at least other 20 great synths in VST format (includes Dune 2 and Dune CM). No shortage in synths, but shortage in my creativity

[recursive one]

Dune 3 might be the only synth I buy during 2018 (really!)

Is it supposed to be released in 2018?

[EnGee]

Dune 3 might be the only synth I buy during 2018 (really!)

Is it supposed to be released in 2018?

I have no idea! Just a guess!
You mean it might be released in 2019?

[recursive one]

You mean it might be released in 2019?

No idea... Were there any announcements or anything?

[EnGee]

According to the 'news' page in KVR, no!

[TIMT]

I apologize for my harsh tone......i´ve drunken too much yesterday

No worries.

And, i agree of course that, in general, iOS apps can sound as good as desktop plugins. After all, there's also example of apps/plugins which have been ported to both platforms, like Waldorf Nave, and Cakewalk Z3TA. The iOS devices still have a limited processing power though, so, developers surely have to code their apps taking that into account. Nave for example is a straight digital synth, no circuit modelling or anything going on, same should apply to Z3TA. I don't know what Moog did with their Minimoog app, and, without trying it out, i also can't judge on that finally. I just can say that, for simple sounds, it is almost indistinguishable from the real thing in the sound demos, while, for more extreme sounds, the differences seem more apparent. How relevant that is to you is another thing, of course. I think for a $5 app, it sounds absolutely fantastic, of course.

Already posted this in another thread:

Same clearly obvious differences with all analog modelling regardless of developer

Attack/note onset transient is way off

Bass and low mids are weedy and "thin"sounding and no,it has nothing to do with EQ,nor would EQ rectify it.The Legend is definitely closer,but its still a bit off when it comes to the dynamics of the bottom end

Envelopes (no surprises there) are way off

Less "open"sounding.you can hear they seem to mix differently when he mixes in the saw with the square,where as when he does the same thing with the app,they sort of mush into one another making one tone with very little definition and flat and or "useless"dynamics e.g out of control beating of phase (pretty much all VSTI's suffer from that "issue")

Top end and hi mids lack animation/generallly sound uninteresting/slightly shrill(not ear wrenchingly horrible though)

Filter seems to sit on top of the sound rather than blend with it.when i played round with a Minimoog D last year i noticed that when you drive the filter into self resonance it had this almost grinding AM quality to it (my Matrix has the same sort of property despite being a different topology to that of a ladder filter)The Drop can do this for example,but it seems absent from a lot of analog models