KVR Audio

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:49 pm

Wouldn't get any of those in Reaper

Stefken · Post by **Stefken** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:23 pm

Harry_HH wrote:
braj wrote:
I´ve got a i7 4,8 kHz 16 RAM desktop, it runs the Odyssey, but my i7 2,5 kHz 8 RAM laptop can´t run the Odyssey. I´ve got about 300 plugins, including big libraries in laptop, and have no problem running any of those, the usual CPU hit per instance is 5-12 %, Odyssey goes up up 200 % with many of the presets.

It seems that the KORG policy is to neglect Win and put all effort to the Mac and iOS. What a drag.

No problems here. I can run 20 instances with cpumeter around 75%.
Windows 7 64 bit, Ableton 10, I7 4790K, 16G RAM.

bill45 · Post by **bill45** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:27 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
Harry_HH wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:Live isn't known as a particularly efficient host, though...
For me Live has been efficient enough - so far. As said, I´ve got about 300 plugins from about 50 different developers running in this laptop, including big libraries and modelling plugins, which often use a lot of CPU (e.g. AAS). No problems with these, average CPU use per instance is 5-15 %, I can run 20+ tracks with tens of plugin installations without any trouble.
KORG Odyssey from some other planet. I bet they have srewed up somehow, when optimizing the plugin: in some combination of DAW, OS and processor type, the Odyssey goes to red, as soon as it is launched.

It a pitty. I have owned the KORG Legacy collection for years and upgraded to the Odyssey as soon as it came out. I like the sound of all those plugins. But KORG should take this issue seriously.
They must know about this issue, I wished they had done something to it, when they launched the update some weeks ago. But I think the latest version of the Odyssey is even worse than the previous one.
Live's CPU meter doesn't report actual CPU percentage being used, though.

No issues here in Reaper. It does need some CPU, but not that much more than Diva, say. Also, I don't think they're wasting a lot of CPU... the quality of emulation speaks for itself.

Reaper has a reputation for being a very effecient DAW. I updated Diva. Engaged the multicore button and it made a huge difference in cubase. I'll try it in reaper.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:34 am

Harry_HH wrote:the updates are as bad as the old ones: small GUIs, except the Odyssey - but the Odyssey is practically unusable with in the laptop use. CPU, in the Live 9 /WIn 10 64 bit anyway, hits red as soon as you open the plugin. Decreasing number of voices is no solution, it may help a little, but not enough.

I have Odyssey running in several songs on my 4th Gen Core i5 Surface Pro 2 with no problems at all. Yes, it uses more CPU than most of our other plugins but it is very manageable, you just have to use the fewest number of voices you can get away with. I'm pretty sure I could run two or three instances in any song if I needed/wanted to, without having to compromise on the sound, before it started to cause any problems.

I´ve got a i7 4,8 kHz 16 RAM desktop, it runs the Odyssey, but my i7 2,5 kHz 8 RAM laptop can´t run the Odyssey.

If that's true, there is something seriously wrong with your laptop. My SPro 2 only has 4GB of RAM and I can run Odyssey and Substance (which has a 4GB sample library) side-by-side easily (I was doing precisely that last night). Do you have a fast drive or is it an old HDD? An SSD upgrade might speed things up?

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:45 am

Atlatnesiti wrote:
braj wrote:There are people out there that play the spoons professionally. I do think someone could easily work an iPad into their rig and make it work for them. An iPad and a small keyboard controller makes a powerful portable rig. It's not for everyone, but neither are the spoons.
You’re not wrong. Here is the live performance of pro in action with no less than 4 iPads and his voice...

And here is another one explaining:

Perfect illustration of why it is such a bad idea. Look at that ridiculous set-up, it must take him an hour to get it all set up. AND he had to get a "team of developers" to build it for him, which took more than a whole year to get up and running, so it's orders of magnitude more work than anyone should need. AND he uses three iPads and two MacBook Pros to do the work my band does with a single, four year old Surface Pro 2. AND he admits that it fails on him EVERY TIME he plays a show. He also seems more like a stand-up comedian than a musician, just taking what Reggie Watts was doing a decade or more ago and extending it with a more modern set-up.

braj · Post by **braj** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:56 am

Lol, for everyone that over-engineers their rig there's 100 people happy to carry their Odyssey in their backpack and don't get any more complicated than that. I swear you could do a ton of synth work with an iPad and a cheap maudio controller. I do not understand any musicians turning their noses up at iPads as if they are toys. They are as professional as you are.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:37 am

No, they aren't, simply because they are unable to support industry-standard tools. Because that's what professionals need - the same tools that everyone else in their industry is using so that they can walk into any situation and be productive straight away. e.g. In my industry, it's Adobe CC. There are much better tools around than Illustrator, Photoshop or After Effects but you'll never get any paid work unless you know those things inside-out and back-to-front.

Of course, it's not really the same in the music industry, certainly not at the level the likes of you and I operate at, but if you want to make it into the big time, best to leave your iPad at home and get something that can run Protools.

For the record, I don't just carry my Odyssey in my backpack (shoulder bag, actually - backpacks are too sweaty), I also carry the rest of my software set-up - my host/DAW, hundreds of standalone and plugin instruments and effects and around 20GB of sample content, as well as my audio editors of choice (Adobe Audition and SoundForge) and supporting software (SynthEdit, etc.). All that takes up so little space that there is even room for my portable audio device (Zoom U-24) and my MiniLab Mk II controller. (Which makes me wonder why I ever got rid of my Edirol PCR-1, which was tiny but could do both those things.)

EDIT: I just bought another PCR 1 on eBay. Happy camper now.

Harry_HH · Post by **Harry_HH** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:00 am

BONES wrote: If that's true, there is something seriously wrong with your laptop. My SPro 2 only has 4GB of RAM and I can run Odyssey and Substance (which has a 4GB sample library) side-by-side easily (I was doing precisely that last night). Do you have a fast drive or is it an old HDD? An SSD upgrade might speed things up?

Funny that this "seriously wrong with my laptop" doesn´t show with any other of my about 300 plugins and sample libraries, running in this same laptop.

If the relation is 1/300, you don´t need to be rocket scientist to draw a conclusion, that the place, where is something wrong, is inside the KORG/Arp Odyssey, not in the laptop.

But if someone knows exact way, how to test the computer performance, please give me a hint.

As said earlier in this thread, my theory is, until better one is proposed, that there´s something special in the way Odyssey is programmed, which in certain combination of processor, OS and DAW makes it vulnerabe and overload.

Stefken · Post by **Stefken** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:28 am

Harry_HH wrote: As said earlier in this thread, my theory is, until better one is proposed, that there´s something special in the way Odyssey is programmed, which in certain combination of processor, OS and DAW makes it vulnerabe and overload.

I guess Korg support is the first place to go. File a support ticket with clear specifications of your system.
I did a retest with some of my own presets which are heavy on the unison and stuff.
No problem running a fast sequence on like 14 instances.
Meter in Ableton is not always representative. My cpu has 8 threads and I can see that more are kicking in when it gets heavier while the meter on Ableton does not reflect that.

No problems here on my OS, cpu and DAW. Windows 7 64 bit, Ableton 10, I7 4790K, 16G RAM.

Harry_HH · Post by **Harry_HH** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:43 am

Stefken wrote:
Harry_HH wrote: As said earlier in this thread, my theory is, until better one is proposed, that there´s something special in the way Odyssey is programmed, which in certain combination of processor, OS and DAW makes it vulnerabe and overload.
I guess Korg support is the first place to go. File a support ticket with clear specifications of your system.
I did a retest with some of my own presets which are heavy on the unison and stuff.
No problem running a fast sequence on like 14 instances.
Meter in Ableton is not always representative. My cpu has 8 threads and I can see that more are kicking in when it gets heavier while the meter on Ableton does not reflect that.

No problems here on my OS, cpu and DAW. Windows 7 64 bit, Ableton 10, I7 4790K, 16G RAM.

KORG is notoriously uncommunicative what comes to their support.
This issue has been under discussion in many threads since the launch of the Odyssey, KORG must know the case, I don´t think my post will help. If they don´t care, they don´t care.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:50 am

Harry_HH wrote:If the relation is 1/300, you don´t need to be rocket scientist to draw a conclusion, that the place, where is something wrong, is inside the KORG/Arp Odyssey, not in the laptop.

The Odyssey uses a lot of CPU so it could simply be a matter of it crossing some threshold that causes CPU spikes because of some of hardware fault/issue. After all, it's the same code the rest of us are using, yet it's only you who has this problem. To use your own words - if the relation is one to a few dozen, you don´t need to be a rocket scientist to draw a conclusion, that the place, where is something wrong, is inside your PC.

But if someone knows exact way, how to test the computer performance, please give me a hint.

Use Task Manager and Resource Monitor (accessed from within Task Manager).

Harry_HH · Post by **Harry_HH** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:31 pm

BONES wrote:
Harry_HH wrote:If the relation is 1/300, you don´t need to be rocket scientist to draw a conclusion, that the place, where is something wrong, is inside the KORG/Arp Odyssey, not in the laptop.
The Odyssey uses a lot of CPU so it could simply be a matter of it crossing some threshold that causes CPU spikes because of some of hardware fault/issue. After all, it's the same code the rest of us are using, yet it's only you who has this problem. To use your own words - if the relation is one to a few dozen, you don´t need to be a rocket scientist to draw a conclusion, that the place, where is something wrong, is inside your PC.
But if someone knows exact way, how to test the computer performance, please give me a hint.
Use Task Manager and Resource Monitor (accessed from within Task Manager).

I have followed the discussion from the very beginning of the launch of the Odyssey (an I purchased it as soon as it came out), the high CPU usage has been most mentioned single issue in all of the threads. How hard this hits, seems to be depended on the processor type, power, OS and DAW. Its obvious that the laptop I own, is in this case more vulnerable than the average.

Resource Monitor just shows the allocation of computer resources, it doesn´t do any holistic/genetic test to the computer, which could be benchmarked to the result of other computers. Resource Monitor more or less just repeats the same information as the DAW CPU meter gives.

braj · Post by **braj** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:16 pm

Use the support link in my signature, they have been very responsive with that one.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:32 am

Harry_HH wrote:I have followed the discussion from the very beginning of the launch of the Odyssey (an I purchased it as soon as it came out), the high CPU usage has been most mentioned single issue in all of the threads.

Sure but nowhere near the extent to which it affects you. For me, with unison turned up, Odyssey can hit 50% CPU all on it's own, where something like DUNE 2 might only use 5-10% to play the same part with the same number of unison voices. Your case is far more extreme than any other I've read here. I am in no way trying to defend Korg or their plugin, simply pointing out to you that it may not be a software issue.

I had a problem with a Silicon Graphics workstation, about 18 years ago, where one of my applications would always cause it to crash after half-an-hour or so of use. I assumed it was a software problem and spent days uninstalling and reinstalling but it turned out to be a bad RAM module that most of my applications didn't use but this one program did. With your CPU going to 300%, it sounds more like that sort of issue to me - a high CPU use plugin revealing a hardware fault - rather than a straight problem with the plugin. It may not be but I'd definitely check everything and not make assumptions.

Resource Monitor just shows the allocation of computer resources, it doesn´t do any holistic/genetic test to the computer, which could be benchmarked to the result of other computers. Resource Monitor more or less just repeats the same information as the DAW CPU meter gives.

Correct but it will give you a far more accurate reading on your CPU use than your host software, which is what I thought you were asking for. Orion 64 bit shows up to 20% higher CPU use than I see in Task Manager most of the time.

T-CM11 · Post by **T-CM11** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:11 am

BONES wrote:
Correct but it will give you a far more accurate reading on your CPU use than your host software, which is what I thought you were asking for. Orion 64 bit shows up to 20% higher CPU use than I see in Task Manager most of the time.

I don't know about Orion or other DAW, but Cubase has an ASIO meter in stead of a CPU one. Maybe other DAW applications also take ASIO load in consideration?
https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advi ... -i-believe

Korg updates its Legacy Collection with a new Arp Odyssey emulation