KVR Audio

ItaloDisco · Post by **ItaloDisco** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:17 pm

Hi

Just a friendly heads up on this plugin and Toneboosters in general.

I regret buying the EQ4 as it never lived up to the press release of sidechain compression in Ableton Live 10 (RELEASED IN 2018! as you I'm sure you're aware of).

I didn't demo it as I just assumed: brand new plugin + brand new version of such a popular DAW as Ableton -Badabing badabong -all features are GO! No such luck.

Ok, I was stupid, didn't demo; and did'nt read the bloody fine prints on the website... (no VST2 support for spectral side chaining)

Long story short, after some annoying defensive and argumentative "customer support", basicly the maker blamed Ableton for beeing obsolete and me for not demoing...)

Now don't get me wrong, I applaud a new plugin at this fair price and this post may come accross as petty. But, that isn't the issue here. If you advertise a new feature, why f**king exclude important stuff about it in the press release/advertising regarding compability? I bought this plugin exclusivly for the sidechain feafure and it annoys me.

Not very flattering for a brand and I thought some of you might like to know. I don't care about the money, -stuff like this just aggravates me, thats all.

Rant over

As you where.

dreamvoid · Post by **dreamvoid** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:43 pm

VST2 never supported side chaining AFAIK, it is technically not supported (edited: from not "possible" to not "supported") - that is not a Toneboosters problem. Toneboosters stuff sounds great and supports multi channel work flows in the V4 versions, running fine here in VST3 hosts.

DarkStar · Post by **DarkStar** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:58 pm

^^^^
Au contraire, I have several VST2 plug-ins that have external side-chains. TDR Nova, to name but one.

The sidechain-input dropdown allows using an external signal to drive NOVA’s sidechain.
- INT SC: Internal sidechain input. NOVA uses the input signal to drive the dynamics
processor.
- EXT SC: External sidechain input. NOVA uses an external signal to drive the dynamics processor.

Note that the sidechaining abilities vary greatly across plugin formats and plugin hosts.

But, maybe I have misunderstood the term "Spectral side-chain compression".

mabian · Post by **mabian** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:01 pm

dreamvoid wrote:VST2 never supported side chaining AFAIK, it is technically not possible - that is not a Toneboosters problem. Toneboosters stuff sounds great and supports multi channel work flows in the V4 versions, running fine here in VST3 hosts.

VST2 has been used with support of external side chaining for ages through tricking additional channels.

For example Wave Arts Trackplug has a special version that features sidechain VST 2.4 support, but there are many other VST 2 plugins doing the same.

- Mario

DuX · Post by **DuX** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:06 pm

Side-chaining is very possible with VST2 but you have to use a DAW that sports better routing, like Reaper. VST3 just features a special i/o for side-chaining called "side-chaning i/o", that Steinberg and other DAWs can use [or not], that's all.

dreamvoid · Post by **dreamvoid** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:07 pm

Sure I know that side chaining with VST2 would be possible - I remember doing this with Zynaptic Morph 2 before the VST3 version appeared. But that is NOT side chain support - it is not supported 'natively' with VST3.
"The main improvement for our plug-ins is external side chain support in Cubase and Nuendo. With VST2 plug-ins it was necessary to create an additional quad (or stereo) bus to route the extra side chain input. With VST3 plug-ins, Cubase supports side chain natively"

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Blog/new-r ... -what-for/

BerryLaCroix · Post by **BerryLaCroix** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:11 pm

dreamvoid wrote: "The main improvement for our plug-ins is external side chain support in Cubase and Nuendo. With VST2 plug-ins it was necessary to create an additional quad (or stereo) bus to route the extra side chain input. With VST3 plug-ins, Cubase supports side chain natively"

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Blog/new-r ... -what-for/

And indeed, with VST2 side chain input as proper bus is impossible; one has to cheat the system by creating a single input bus consisting of 4 channels. That said, there are hosts that simply crash when presented a plugin with such 4-channel-fake-side-chain input (a host that is actually created by the inventors of VST!).

dreamvoid · Post by **dreamvoid** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:13 pm

I edited my original post to be more precise -> side chaining not supported in VST2. The work arounds for VST2 side chaining were used by me too for many years. Sorry for the confusion.

ItaloDisco · Post by **ItaloDisco** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:05 pm

BerryLaCroix wrote:
dreamvoid wrote: "The main improvement for our plug-ins is external side chain support in Cubase and Nuendo. With VST2 plug-ins it was necessary to create an additional quad (or stereo) bus to route the extra side chain input. With VST3 plug-ins, Cubase supports side chain natively"

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Blog/new-r ... -what-for/
And indeed, with VST2 side chain input as proper bus is impossible; one has to cheat the system by creating a single input bus consisting of 4 channels. That said, there are hosts that simply crash when presented a plugin with such 4-channel-fake-side-chain input (a host that is actually created by the inventors of VST!).

I wonder why this is possible for a pluging like Trackspacer with VST2?
I don't own it, but read and heard the praise.
Thought I'd get the same feature with Toneboosters E.Q.4. Annoying!

It's pretty daunting.. this constant lag of standard protocols in the industry. As if it they truly give an edge for one company over another..More like holding developments back
(e.g. take the ole midi

)

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:16 pm

ItaloDisco wrote:
BerryLaCroix wrote:And indeed, with VST2 side chain input as proper bus is impossible; one has to cheat the system by creating a single input bus consisting of 4 channels. That said, there are hosts that simply crash when presented a plugin with such 4-channel-fake-side-chain input (a host that is actually created by the inventors of VST!).

I wonder why this is possible for a pluging like Trackspacer with VST2?
I don't own it, but read and heard the praise.

It's as described in BerryLaCroix' post - the sidechain is simply two additional 'regular' channels that the plugin declares to the host. Ableton makes it possible to route audio from a different stereo pair into those extra channels. But other hosts can get confused by it.

One option is to get around crashes is to have multiple versions of the VST2 - one that is just a stereo pair and one with the extras for sidechaining.

mabian · Post by **mabian** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:23 pm

Gamma-UT wrote: It's as described in BerryLaCroix' post - the sidechain is simply two additional 'regular' channels that the plugin declares to the host. Ableton makes it possible to route audio from a different stereo pair into those extra channels. But other hosts can get confused by it.

One option is to get around crashes is to have multiple versions of the VST2 - one that is just a stereo pair and one with the extras for sidechaining.

... Which is exactly how TrackPlug deals with it...

- Mario

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:11 pm

so, let me get this straight. Cubase's VST2 implementation is so defective that you basically can't side-chain, but it's ToneBoosters' fault?

dreamvoid · Post by **dreamvoid** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:25 pm

ItaloDisco wrote: It's pretty daunting.. this constant lag of standard protocols in the industry.

VST3 is a standard and out since roughly 10 years ...

dangayle · Post by **dangayle** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:26 pm

Can this all be taken to a new thread? VST 2/3 sidechain support has a long and convoluted history and really has nothing to do with Toneboosters

dreamvoid · Post by **dreamvoid** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:48 pm

Burillo wrote:so, let me get this straight. Cubase's VST2 implementation is so defective that you basically can't side-chain, but it's ToneBoosters' fault?

Nuendo and Cubase can work with side chain and Tonebooster EQ V4 - the VST3 is working just fine. Nothing is defective and nobody did something faulty in regard to Steinberg and Toneboosters.

ToneBoosters E.Q.4