First, let me make this clear. I'm rooting for Tracktion. There's no doubt in my mind that it's a superior program in every way. This thread is meant to collect opinion and speculation on whether Mackie has allowed Tracktion on the Mac to become a low priority due to Garageband's popularity.
It's my hope that Tracktion will continue to grow and improve on both major platforms and eventually, on linux. Meanwhile, Tracktion lacks support for important Mac standards like AU plugs. Likewise, there is no optimization to take advantage of the altivec engine now entering it's second generation with the G5. This isn't the future of the platform, it's right now.
To repeat, I much prefer Tracktion over Garageband at present. That could change quickly with a new version of Garageband rumored for release very soon. Consider that it's only $50 bucks for the entire iLife package (which includes Garageband.) It is also rumored that the current Apple settlement with the Beatles' Applecorp will clear the way for major integration between Garageband and the iTunes music store. This promises to offer not only production but DISTRIBUTION and PAYMENT for your creative work.
I don't want Tracktion to lose support in the Mac community. Jules' vision is unique and deserves the widest possible audience. Simply put, I enjoy writing and recording music in Tracktion. Still, it' hard to ignore Apple's track record and the two programs already overlap in more ways than one. Apple's interface will continue to improve and professional features will be added. I only hope that Mackie begins to take the Mac version seriously as soon as possible.
Has Garageband hurt Tracktion on the Mac?
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- KVRist
- 268 posts since 11 Nov, 2003 from kentucky
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- KVRAF
- 1617 posts since 2 Dec, 2003
My friend got GarageBand and was showing it to me the other day, it seems to be kinda lacking. It doesn't appear to support VST and there's a limit to the number of effects you can have. It also seems to be more for loop based stuff.
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- KVRAF
- 1617 posts since 19 Mar, 2002 from Victoria, BC
As to the integration with iTunes, there is no existing sequencer platform that can (or IMHO, will) compete with that. It's certainly cool, and I can see it being a reason to get garageband, but it's not something that Jules, Mackie, or anybody else is going to even try and compete with. The rest of it? well, we've had this discussion before. As I see it, the sequencer scene on the Mac isn't all that competitive. Logic and Cubase for those who need them (or think they do 
) Garageband for the people who think 'making music on my computer would be kind of neat' and Tracktion for people who begin to feel constrained by GB, but aren't interested in putting up the $$ for the 'big boys'
) Garageband for the people who think 'making music on my computer would be kind of neat' and Tracktion for people who begin to feel constrained by GB, but aren't interested in putting up the $$ for the 'big boys'-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 268 posts since 11 Nov, 2003 from kentucky
That's the current status. As I said, there's really no contest right now. Tracktion is better in every way.
Apple learns quickly and I've already read some rumors for features in the next version of Garageband. The gap will close.
Mackie's problems are twofold here.
-Half of the job is marketing. Tracktion hasn't been listed or reviewed in any MacCentric publications. That needs to change.
-Part of that problem is that Tracktion lacks support for Mac standards as mentioned above. This has the unintended effect of saying to users "we are not committed to future development on the mac."
One of the most serious problems with Garageband has been performance. The G5 imac does much to address this at a price that will be attractive to many mac users when comparing features. Apple has also addressed fan noise which is one of the main reasons I've held onto laptop audio as long as I have.
Things change. I want Tracktion to be around so it needs to recognize that the feature gap will close. PR/marketing and Mac standards support are the keys.
Apple learns quickly and I've already read some rumors for features in the next version of Garageband. The gap will close.
Mackie's problems are twofold here.
-Half of the job is marketing. Tracktion hasn't been listed or reviewed in any MacCentric publications. That needs to change.
-Part of that problem is that Tracktion lacks support for Mac standards as mentioned above. This has the unintended effect of saying to users "we are not committed to future development on the mac."
One of the most serious problems with Garageband has been performance. The G5 imac does much to address this at a price that will be attractive to many mac users when comparing features. Apple has also addressed fan noise which is one of the main reasons I've held onto laptop audio as long as I have.
Things change. I want Tracktion to be around so it needs to recognize that the feature gap will close. PR/marketing and Mac standards support are the keys.
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- KVRAF
- 1617 posts since 2 Dec, 2003
Well the title of the program itself shows that apple didn't intend for it to be for serious musicians. Also, by the time the new version of GarageBand gets here, T2 will (hopefully) already be out and once again GarageBand will be behind.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 268 posts since 11 Nov, 2003 from kentucky
Garageband IS a teaser application as it stands. Apple clearly wants to lure people to music production (and the platform) with an introductory application. As the user base grows, Apple will offer more sophisticated features and a middle grade software application, Proband.
It's not difficult to see where this is going. Apple is positioning itself to be a new paradigm record company. Applecorp knows this. It's why they are settling now. Why do you think that Apple has been saving up such a big nest egg?
Where does Tracktion fit? Well, if more specific consideration isn't given to Mac Standards, it doesn't. Apple is, once again, succeeding in expanding a creative market. With Tracktion, Mackie CAN compete and is, for now, way ahead. Perhaps T2 is the window for bringing all these things together. We'll probably know soon.
It's not difficult to see where this is going. Apple is positioning itself to be a new paradigm record company. Applecorp knows this. It's why they are settling now. Why do you think that Apple has been saving up such a big nest egg?
Where does Tracktion fit? Well, if more specific consideration isn't given to Mac Standards, it doesn't. Apple is, once again, succeeding in expanding a creative market. With Tracktion, Mackie CAN compete and is, for now, way ahead. Perhaps T2 is the window for bringing all these things together. We'll probably know soon.
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- KVRist
- 73 posts since 29 Aug, 2003 from australia
Hey James,
good to see you are keeping a positive attitude, despite a hiccup in Mac support at this juncture...
I just yesterday had a look at Garageband on a 1.33 Ghz powerbook, and it seemed to gobble about 70% of the cpu whilst running only 6 audio tracks with no plugs that I could see!
I noticed somewhere (and it may have been another thread) that you remained a laptop audio user, and was wondering what you run. I am in quite immediate need of some mobility and am very seriously considering an Acer Centrino laptop. The Mac build quality is far advanced in my opinion, but the extra money for a G4 powerbook which may soon become obsolete concerns me (and the price in comparison to the new imac also is of some concern)...as well as much more ancillary Tracktion development on the PC..
also what's the Garageband>Itunes situation? How exactly does one get published on itune music shop? I searched google tediously but found no info other than how to publish your playlists!
peace to you and your families
Six
good to see you are keeping a positive attitude, despite a hiccup in Mac support at this juncture...
I just yesterday had a look at Garageband on a 1.33 Ghz powerbook, and it seemed to gobble about 70% of the cpu whilst running only 6 audio tracks with no plugs that I could see!
I noticed somewhere (and it may have been another thread) that you remained a laptop audio user, and was wondering what you run. I am in quite immediate need of some mobility and am very seriously considering an Acer Centrino laptop. The Mac build quality is far advanced in my opinion, but the extra money for a G4 powerbook which may soon become obsolete concerns me (and the price in comparison to the new imac also is of some concern)...as well as much more ancillary Tracktion development on the PC..
also what's the Garageband>Itunes situation? How exactly does one get published on itune music shop? I searched google tediously but found no info other than how to publish your playlists!
peace to you and your families
Six
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- KVRer
- 23 posts since 16 Jan, 2004
Just a comment on Mac build quality. I've had 2 macs in my life (an iBook and a PowerBook). The iBook logic board failed terminally in under 18 months, and the PowerBook display cooked in under 3 weeks. Apple has fixed (is fixing my PowerBook now) all problems at no charge to me, but come on that's a ridiculous failure rate. In the last year I have had 3 friends lose 3 iBooks (2 display failures, and one HDD controller failure). I love the OS, and the processor, but quality is not something that I would choose to buy Apple on again. I think the PC market is getting me back after this last experience. (Sorry for the rant, the PowerBook just died the other day and I was just informed that due to a problem getting a part from Apple, when I would get it back is indeterminate ... joy.)
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- KVRist
- 73 posts since 29 Aug, 2003 from australia
you're not wrong!but come on that's a ridiculous failure rate.
I've had 3 macs, a 350 G3 imac, a 350 g3 b&w tower, and a 1.25 ghz G4 mdd and despite lugging them about the country wrapped in blankets in the back of an old Kombi, and generally treating them in a manner that I doubt would please a Apple tech...I've had not a single hardware related issue!
Perhaps the difference we are experiencing is the portable/tower difference, perhaps it's luck....just to my eye and touch the apple powerbooks just seemed better made ... mind you your experience is making the Acer 2hour tunraround warranty look good!
Six
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 268 posts since 11 Nov, 2003 from kentucky
I'm always optimistic!
Jules is a good guy and I'm pretty sure Mackie wants Tracktion to succeed. What follows is common sense.
For raw horsepower, I don't think you can beat that Acer.
If you're lookin at Mac options, visit www.macofalltrades.com. I highly recommend them. They go through every machine with a fine comb. Service and support are excellent with the best prices available on used/refurbished machines. I would never buy a used ibook or powerbook unless it was from them. Right now, they have a couple of ibook g3 500's cheap - 499 cd and 549 cdrw. These machines run panther reasonably well. Also, as mentioned in this thread, Tracktion isn't optimized for velocity engine so a G4 wouldn't make any difference. Better to save money and go for an inexpensive ibook, particularly if you don't want to risk an expensive new laptop on backcountry trips.
I'm still using my old reliable powerbook wallstreet. It's easy to work on compared to everything that came after the pismo. It's been hotrodded a bit and it runs everything well. I'm also keeping an eye on new machines and have to admit that my next purchase may not be a portable - the new G5 imac looks pretty darn good and should scream on optimized applications (hint hint).
Jules is a good guy and I'm pretty sure Mackie wants Tracktion to succeed. What follows is common sense.
For raw horsepower, I don't think you can beat that Acer.
If you're lookin at Mac options, visit www.macofalltrades.com. I highly recommend them. They go through every machine with a fine comb. Service and support are excellent with the best prices available on used/refurbished machines. I would never buy a used ibook or powerbook unless it was from them. Right now, they have a couple of ibook g3 500's cheap - 499 cd and 549 cdrw. These machines run panther reasonably well. Also, as mentioned in this thread, Tracktion isn't optimized for velocity engine so a G4 wouldn't make any difference. Better to save money and go for an inexpensive ibook, particularly if you don't want to risk an expensive new laptop on backcountry trips.
I'm still using my old reliable powerbook wallstreet. It's easy to work on compared to everything that came after the pismo. It's been hotrodded a bit and it runs everything well. I'm also keeping an eye on new machines and have to admit that my next purchase may not be a portable - the new G5 imac looks pretty darn good and should scream on optimized applications (hint hint).
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- KVRAF
- 25030 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
you also forgot to mention DP and Metroglurgle wrote:I forgot to mention live. Also in a much higher tax bracket.
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- KVRist
- 37 posts since 16 May, 2004
I use both.
I typically start projects using GarageBand. It's a great musical sketchpad and the loop features are hip; included searchable loop libraries, auto time/tempo adjustment, dragging the right border of audio waveforms automatically loops the part. Also, the genre oriented master mixdown and effects settings make it easy to get a quick, psuedo-polished sound.
Then the projects move to Tracktion... It is more responsive and can handle a larger number of tracks. There are also groovy features like project export that make it easy to work with other people, and there are still more VST plugins than AudioUnit. The 2 machine license is also hip as it allows transfer between the Mac and PC (although there seems to be a problem sometimes exporting aiff files).
For projects that require automation (or a handful of other features) its back to Nuendo.
Jay
I typically start projects using GarageBand. It's a great musical sketchpad and the loop features are hip; included searchable loop libraries, auto time/tempo adjustment, dragging the right border of audio waveforms automatically loops the part. Also, the genre oriented master mixdown and effects settings make it easy to get a quick, psuedo-polished sound.
Then the projects move to Tracktion... It is more responsive and can handle a larger number of tracks. There are also groovy features like project export that make it easy to work with other people, and there are still more VST plugins than AudioUnit. The 2 machine license is also hip as it allows transfer between the Mac and PC (although there seems to be a problem sometimes exporting aiff files).
For projects that require automation (or a handful of other features) its back to Nuendo.
Jay
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- KVRAF
- 9096 posts since 5 Feb, 2004
GarageBand kills Tracktion in loop support, and this will likely prevent anyone from upgrading to Tracktion from GarageBand. So I would guess Traction could be impacted by GB. Also, GB is so damn easy to use that even Tracktion, slick as it is, may seem confusing to some new users.
If GarageBand 2.0 dramatically improves performance and adds a few more features, then lots of DAWs on the Mac need to watch out. As it stands, it's incredibly better than the old 4 tracks that plenty of pros started out with back in the day, and far cheaper too (if you already have a Mac). I wouldn't discount it's ability to produce pro-quality music, as long as the music isn't overly complex. A singer-songwriter that just wants a mellow ambient track behind their guitar playing would be dumb not to choose GarageBand to make their demos. It's really a slick little app.
If GarageBand 2.0 dramatically improves performance and adds a few more features, then lots of DAWs on the Mac need to watch out. As it stands, it's incredibly better than the old 4 tracks that plenty of pros started out with back in the day, and far cheaper too (if you already have a Mac). I wouldn't discount it's ability to produce pro-quality music, as long as the music isn't overly complex. A singer-songwriter that just wants a mellow ambient track behind their guitar playing would be dumb not to choose GarageBand to make their demos. It's really a slick little app.