Tecnnical difference between uhe synth and others

[3ee]

.. In the end, it is all DSP though, nothing "magical" going on.

I disagree!
DSP nothing short than magical! ... ultimately, not even from energy but virtual ones and zeros

[3ee]

Don't have experience with Avenger (mainly because it's iLoked and I simply stay away from "the hassle" , yes, it does exist for some, big time! ) ..or is it eLicenser? whatever..

Neither. It’s a hard-disk key file.

Really? must check it out then, seems like a cool synth!

[Elektronisch]

Hi guys, I’m looking for an high quality synth for sound design. Zebra and VPS Avenger are my favorites ones, but I can buy only one $$$
I downloaded and tried both and Zebra seems to be the best sounding. Are there any technical differences between the two synths? Does u-he software use analog emulation or special DSP algorithm?
Thanks

As stupid as it sounds but these 2 synths character is so different that it really depends on the music you are going to do.

If you are planing on doing modern dance music Avenger's character is better suited for that. Avenger is simply cleaner sounding, more digital and "in your face".

[yellowmix]

I have Avenger and Zebra 2, and a whole bunch of other synths. Like everyone said, it's apples and oranges. But what you already have and plan to get (in terms of other synths) is a factor.

Purely on synthesis capabilities, they have unique aspects, but Avenger covers a bit more but retread ground, while Zebra's is very unique IMO. Avenger simply is not my first choice when it comes to forms of synthesis covered by other tools. But what else does Zebra's vector wave and spectral morphing, nevermind the oscillator FX and sync modes?

But as a first synth, Avenger makes sense in terms of filling out a toolbox very quickly. You get a wide variety of synthesis methods with an EDM-oriented preset and smallish sample library. Vengeance has been great, adding entirely new synthesis methods for free. More recently this includes FM synthesis, but it's just plain awkward to use. And that's my primary gripe with the synth; it's clumsy and it slows down my workflow.

That drum machine I mentioned? It's got its own page you can ignore but you can't delete the selection tab on the main GUI. I don't want a drum machine in every synth patch! FM is great, but you adjust each oscillator on separate pages. This is much more inefficient than every other FM synth out there, including Zebra's FMO oscillators. The one-screen paradigm is kind of inconsistent in terms of what is always on the screen and what is on a hidden page. You can't get rid of the virtual piano keys on the bottom, can't collapse the middle row (FX, Editor, Mod Matrix), but have to switch pages to get to extra oscs, amps, envs, LFOs, and you can't expand the Mod Matrix to be any bigger than what's allotted.

There's a lot to like about Avenger, so let me make clear these are purely a workflow issue. Vengeance addressed a lot of other pain points common in other synths. But knowing Zebra and how thoughtful and smooth the workflow is, Avenger pales in comparison.

Another issue is the sound character. Avenger is unabashedly EDM oriented and it excels at hard, digital, bombastic sounds. But it simply does not have Zebra's range. I think you'll find Zebra's depth to be more gratifying from a sound design perspective. Avenger is fundamentally subtractive with a set Osc-Filter-FX path, while Zebra is semi-modular; from a sound design perspective, it simply offers more flexibility. From a results-oriented viewpoint, Zebra's third party preset ecosystem has much more breadth, especially in the cinematic/scoring department. And if you're wondering if Zebra has hard digital chops, look at the soundsets PluginGuru Toxic Zebra and Freshly Squeezed Zebra. When designing, make use of hard vector corners/edges, the FMO and comb modules, turn up oscillator resolution, set renderer to crisp, and turn off voice drift and possibly soft attack.

But to get back to the point, if you are planning on getting other synths, you'll likely ditch Avenger as you cover each base. When do I use Avenger? When I happen to want a smorgasbord of synthesis methods in a single patch, like FM with a granular layer, but that's rare. For single synthesis methods, I'm better covered by other synths (and drum machines). If I got Falcon I'd definitely get rid of it. But nothing could replace Zebra 2 (except Zebra 3, and maybe not even then), and hasn't in all the years it's been around (not to discount the updates and new features implemented since then).

Both synths have generous demos so you can make a very informed choice. Read the manuals—these are some of the most deep synths available. And reading about the modules isn't enough, you have to see them in action. Browse interesting patches and deconstruct them (look at Zebra factory 7 Noises and 8 Perkers for interesting uses of noise and comb, download Michael Kastrup's FM examples from the patch library). Make patches and a song. If you can get the results you want and you see the potential for more then you'll know.

[arcy]

But what you already have and plan to get (in terms of other synths) is a factor.

I'm a producer, primarily on cinematic and electronic styles. But for customers, I produce a wide range of styles. But I don't think that Zebra is more cinematic than Avenger because Zimmer used it for films etc etc...if Zimmer used Avenger, Avenger would have become "the cinematic synth".

The one-screen paradigm is kind of inconsistent in terms of what is always on the screen and what is on a hidden page. You can't get rid of the virtual piano keys on the bottom, can't collapse the middle row (FX, Editor, Mod Matrix), but have to switch pages to get to extra oscs, amps, envs, LFOs, and you can't expand the Mod Matrix to be any bigger than what's allotted.

But IMHO, Avenger has a better modulation matrix that is grouped by type (ModW, LFOs, etc). And the target parameter becomes animated by the modulation source...and from the target, I can see which source modulated it, go on it or deleted it. Mod matrix in Zebra, for me, is dispersive.

Another issue is the sound character. Avenger is unabashedly EDM oriented and it excels at hard, digital, bombastic sounds. But it simply does not have Zebra's range. I think you'll find Zebra's depth to be more gratifying from a sound design perspective.

This is the crucial point. Avenger for me has a better workflow, but the sound quality and versatility of Zebra are audible.

If I got Falcon I'd definitely get rid of it. But nothing could replace Zebra 2 (except Zebra 3, and maybe not even then), and hasn't in all the years it's been around (not to discount the updates and new features implemented since then).

I have Falcon...it sounds good. But workflow..........nah. Too many levels, too many graphical redundancies and a poor ecosystem outside UVI libraries.

[glokraw]

Hi guys, I’m looking for an high quality synth for sound design.

If you plan to sell soundsets, keep in mind that Zebra2 will prepare
you for Zebra3, which release will be a great happening in the box
of music production.

If you can ready a great soundset in V2, and quickly modify it
for V3, it will be an advantage, not that other sound designers
won't be doing the same. Try and arrange free time accordingly,
as timing info becomes available. Maybe you can apply to be a V3
beta tester?

If you'll be making sounds for personal use, there is
an editable randomizer script for V2, I haven't tried
using it in 2.8 yet, as my yard thinks it's the Amazon Jungle,
and needs tending to By controlling the amount of
randomization, you can get new sounds, then when you get
a special sound, use limited randomization to create
a floor full of similar dance partners, enhancing them as you go.
Cheers

[arcy]

Hi guys, I’m looking for an high quality synth for sound design.

If you plan to sell soundsets, keep in mind that Zebra2 will prepare
you for Zebra3, which release will be a great happening in the box
of music production.

If you can ready a great soundset in V2, and quickly modify it
for V3, it will be an advantage, not that other sound designers
won't be doing the same. Try and arrange free time accordingly,
as timing info becomes available. Maybe you can apply to be a V3
beta tester?

If you'll be making sounds for personal use, there is
an editable randomizer script for V2, I haven't tried
using it in 2.8 yet, as my yard thinks it's the Amazon Jungle,
and needs tending to By controlling the amount of
randomization, you can get new sounds, then when you get
a special sound, use limited randomization to create
a floor full of similar dance partners, enhancing them as you go.
Cheers

Thanks glokraw! the randomizer is interesting! Anyway, yes! For now I create sounds for personal use, but in the future I'd like to sell them. It is possible to be a V3 beta tester now?

[yellowmix]

I'm a producer, primarily on cinematic and electronic styles. But for customers, I produce a wide range of styles. But I don't think that Zebra is more cinematic than Avenger because Zimmer used it for films etc etc...if Zimmer used Avenger, Avenger would have become "the cinematic synth".

I don't think Zebra is best suited for cinematic because Zimmer used it (nevermind we're talking about Zebra, not his custom HZ version), but there is a very robust ecosystem in addition to the synthesis engine. You only have to listen to it to know. Could Avenger catch up if it tried? Maybe? It's just not there, and you're looking at a purchase now.

You're a sound designer, it sounds like you want both eventually. So what gets you to where you want to go right now? Have you made patches in both demos? Which one helps you make more of the patches you need?

[arcy]

I'm a producer, primarily on cinematic and electronic styles. But for customers, I produce a wide range of styles. But I don't think that Zebra is more cinematic than Avenger because Zimmer used it for films etc etc...if Zimmer used Avenger, Avenger would have become "the cinematic synth".

I don't think Zebra is best suited for cinematic because Zimmer used it (nevermind we're talking about Zebra, not his custom HZ version), but there is a very robust ecosystem in addition to the synthesis engine. You only have to listen to it to know. Could Avenger catch up if it tried? Maybe? It's just not there, and you're looking at a purchase now.

You're a sound designer, it sounds like you want both eventually. So what gets you to where you want to go right now? Have you made patches in both demos? Which one helps you make more of the patches you need?

Sincerely? Both.

[yellowmix]

May as well toss a coin then.

[ghettosynth]

This is a little known fact, but, all of Uhe's synths are powered by the UnReal Synth engine, what do you think that Urs stands for anyways, it's not like that's a normal name or something, right? How many people named Urs do you know? So, that being said, not everyone can get a license to use the UnReal Synth engine and that's what makes Uhe's synths special. You have to know someone in the industry, and I don't mean just anyone, I mean top level people. That they can even sell synths made with the UnReal Synth engine to normal people blows my mind. That's some next level stuff right there, usually you have to be a top producer to even get your hands on this stuff. You do know that top producers don't usually use the same stuff that we do, right?

So, there it is. I should probably go lock my doors now....and maybe keep my body armor handy.

[spunkmuffin]

It is possible to be a V3 beta tester now?

Not now! Uhe usually have open betas, so anyone can be a beta tester...but you have to wait until a beta is out. Anyone cannot be an alpha tester - you have to be special. I doubt Z3 is even in alpha yet so the answer to your question is NO!

And if you're wondering if Zebra has hard digital chops, look at the soundsets PluginGuru Toxic Zebra and Freshly Squeezed Zebra. When designing, make use of hard vector corners/edges, the FMO and comb modules, turn up oscillator resolution, set renderer to crisp, and turn off voice drift and possibly soft attack.

And reading about the modules isn't enough, you have to see them in action. Browse interesting patches and deconstruct them (look at Zebra factory 7 Noises and 8 Perkers for interesting uses of noise and comb, download Michael Kastrup's FM examples from the patch library).

This is exellent advice.