Silence switch in DelayMB not working as well as Avenger delay kill yet!

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jmg8
KVRAF
1708 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK

Post Thu May 17, 2018 9:44 am

Mr D wrote:But why do you think the delay between midi-to-synth and midi-to-plug would be any different?

They are both plugins, they're both receiving midi, why should the synth receive it before the delay plugin?
Dunno mate?

It was a suggestion by Chandler, I just think he might be right. As the synth is the first in the chain and the plugin second. I'm not really sure if they get midi at the same time or if it goes in order of the items in the chain.

The evidence that may support this is the fact that the standalone version of the delay by vengeance doesn't contain the midi kill but the synth delay does have it.
i7/16gb/win10,64bit/Live9/MTotal. + Surface Pro 4 (i5)

Mr D
KVRist
267 posts since 8 May, 2012 from E.U.

Re: Silence switch in DelayMB not working as well as Avenger delay kill yet!

Post Thu May 17, 2018 10:17 am

As far as a i know, that's not how most DAWs work. For example in Cubase the midi sent to a VSTi and a VST would arrive there at the same time. It's not like the midi has to "go through" the VSTi on the way to the delay, that's not how midi routing works in a DAW i don't think!

I think the reason it's not in the Vengeance standalone delay is because it's quite an old one and the Vengeance plugs are not very feature-laden.

Chandlerhimself
KVRian
819 posts since 19 Dec, 2013 from Japan

Re: Silence switch in DelayMB not working as well as Avenger delay kill yet!

Post Thu May 17, 2018 6:01 pm

If a few milliseconds delay doesn’t matter, you can do what you want now. Just use a modulator and set it for a quick attack and no sustain. I did it last night in MPowersynth and it worked like the picture on the forst page. I played a chord and there was delay, but when I played something else the delay stopped and started playing the new chord. Does it need to do something else? If not this can be done with the current MDelayMB.

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MeldaProduction
KVRAF
10392 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: Silence switch in DelayMB not working as well as Avenger delay kill yet!

Post Fri May 18, 2018 1:39 am

I'll think about it for the next update, I hope I understand it well enough now thanks to jmg8's images ;)
Vojtech - MeldaProduction
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Mr D
KVRist
267 posts since 8 May, 2012 from E.U.

Re: Silence switch in DelayMB not working as well as Avenger delay kill yet!

Post Fri May 18, 2018 1:47 am

@Mr Melda: Great!

@Chandler: you're right that you can make it kinda work, but it's not smooth. I've tried it and that midi note that cuts the previous delay doesn't open the delay like again fast enough to catch all the audio from the new sound, so you lose like 60ms or whatever of delay from the new sound. So if you're working with short percussive sounds, it's too late to actually catch the "meat" of the sound.

It's kinds hard to explain. But i challenge anyone to make a patch the has the same instantaneous delay-cut / delay-open-again on short percussive sounds like in my sound samples provided above. I'm open to the possibility that Cubase is somehow at fault, perhaps it works better in another DAW.

Chandlerhimself
KVRian
819 posts since 19 Dec, 2013 from Japan

Re: Silence switch in DelayMB not working as well as Avenger delay kill yet!

Post Fri May 18, 2018 4:15 am

Is this the type of thing you're looking for

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10ydCF ... 9ekOAQ3tPw

The first 8 sec is just a normal delay. After that I turn on the kill switch and the delay stops ringing out, while I'm playing the arp. At 27 sec I turn the effect off and the notes run together like a normal delay. AT 33 sec I turn the kill switch on again. 40 sec off again and I play chords and the delays create a mess. 50 sec I turn the kill switch on again and the delays are cut until the last chord.

I'm not a keyboard player, so there are times the delay leaks through. If you actually plan things out instead of just randomly hitting the keyboard like I did, you can control that. I didn't hear too much of the transient getting cut either although I wouldn't be surprised if it did cut a millisecond or 2. I didn't hear any huge change in the sound. Is this what you wanted or is there still something missing?

werzel
KVRist
132 posts since 25 Jan, 2016

Re: Silence switch in DelayMB not working as well as Avenger delay kill yet!

Post Fri May 18, 2018 12:07 pm

I don't mean to cloud the issue here, I'm just trying to understand what is going on.
I think that I have been correctly following the conversation and I have a question that may oversimplify things.
Does the 'kill switch' act as a sidechain self setup would, or is there something more to it than that? I use that kind of setup to keep long reverbs under control and can't help but think that the same approach would work just fine for delays.

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MeldaProduction
KVRAF
10392 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: Silence switch in DelayMB not working as well as Avenger delay kill yet!

Post Fri May 18, 2018 12:22 pm

I think this particular thing is done using 2 delays and on every MIDI note you switch from one to the other (with crossfading) and erase the previous one. That's something worth experimenting. I think it should be possible in MXXX, but probably won't be possible to add to MDelayMB, that one is already a bit too complex.
Vojtech - MeldaProduction
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jmg8
KVRAF
1708 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK

Re: Silence switch in DelayMB not working as well as Avenger delay kill yet!

Post Fri May 18, 2018 12:23 pm

werzel wrote:I don't mean to cloud the issue here, I'm just trying to understand what is going on.
I think that I have been correctly following the conversation and I have a question that may oversimplify things.
Does the 'kill switch' act as a sidechain self setup would, or is there something more to it than that? I use that kind of setup to keep long reverbs under control and can't help but think that the same approach would work just fine for delays.
Different.
It has to empty the feedback buffer.
i7/16gb/win10,64bit/Live9/MTotal. + Surface Pro 4 (i5)

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VariKusBrainZ
KVRAF
8091 posts since 16 Dec, 2002

Re: Silence switch in DelayMB not working as well as Avenger delay kill yet!

Post Sat May 19, 2018 1:24 am

Just installed the current release.

In Bitwig I can record Silence automation but it doesnt playback.

With midi triggering I can get a midi entered on a track to trigger silence but realtime input from a keyboard does nothing. I can midi is entering the plugin via its activity LED.

Probably a Bitwig issue

Win10 64bit
Melda v12

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