There appears to be a bug when recording midi tracks. I have the midi record mode set to overdub which only seems to work while recording. As soon as I hit stop, the newly recorded parts don't play. I can see the notes as translucent in the background as though they're muted and those notes look like compressed lines rather than the full size like the first notes that were recorded are. It also does this when UN-arming the track record button to manually punch in & out for overdub loop recording when you want to try out ideas, then re-arm to record.
Also, the quantize for midi clips doesn't appear to work correctly. Can anyone confirm?
Midi recording bug in waveform 9.2.1
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- KVRAF
- 1790 posts since 30 Dec, 2012
I can confirm the first bug and will get that sorted out asap. (I assume you're referring to the bug that looped notes in overdub mode get created with a 0 length?)
I'm not sure exactly which bit of "quantize for midi clips" you're referring to? Can you give some precise steps to replicate please?
Thanks for report!
I'm not sure exactly which bit of "quantize for midi clips" you're referring to? Can you give some precise steps to replicate please?
Thanks for report!
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 393 posts since 4 Apr, 2006
Thanks for the response. As for the quantize issue ( midi clip quantization)... I just realized after reading the manual that it only works while in playback mode? I could've sworn that it worked while recording in versions before waveform. I'm not speaking of input Quantize. I seem to remember midi clip quantize working while over-dub recording, now it seems to only work by stopping record first then hitting play, otherwise there is no correction of newly recorded notes until stopping.dRowAudio wrote:I can confirm the first bug and will get that sorted out asap. (I assume you're referring to the bug that looped notes in overdub mode get created with a 0 length?)
I'm not sure exactly which bit of "quantize for midi clips" you're referring to? Can you give some precise steps to replicate please?
Thanks for report!
BTW... will there ever be more options for midi input Quantization like it is for the clips? Can't understand why it's fixed to only Qtz both the start & end and no strength amount.
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- KVRAF
- 1790 posts since 30 Dec, 2012
It doesn't quantise the MIDI as it comes in, that wouldn't really work because what if the quantised start time was before the actual time the note was played? What does happen is in loop recording, if the record mode is "Merge newly recorded MIDI in to any existing clips", the playback of the sequence that is being recorded (i.e. when it loops round) is quantised.
I can't remember off-hand if there's any technical reason that we don't offer more quantise options, it may be simply to keep the the MIDI input options simple. I'll bear this in mind when we next look at MIDI inputs.
Hope that helps.
I can't remember off-hand if there's any technical reason that we don't offer more quantise options, it may be simply to keep the the MIDI input options simple. I'll bear this in mind when we next look at MIDI inputs.
Hope that helps.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 393 posts since 4 Apr, 2006
Hmmm... From my observations ( I also re-installed T7 just to check) it seems that quantization doesn't actually take effect until you stop the sequence then hit play in T7. In waveform... it happens if you stop then hit play or you disable the record trk button when overdub recording. Note values don't actually show up in the piano roll (no real-time visual drawing of notes) until you do one of the before-mentioned actions. No big deal.dRowAudio wrote:It doesn't quantise the MIDI as it comes in, that wouldn't really work because what if the quantised start time was before the actual time the note was played? What does happen is in loop recording, if the record mode is "Merge newly recorded MIDI in to any existing clips", the playback of the sequence that is being recorded (i.e. when it loops round) is quantised.
I can't remember off-hand if there's any technical reason that we don't offer more quantise options, it may be simply to keep the the MIDI input options simple. I'll bear this in mind when we next look at MIDI inputs.
Hope that helps.
It doesn't seem to matter how many loop cycles take place while overdub recording, the QTZ simply doesn't happen until stopping. I can still hear the notes I intentionally played a bit sloppy still sounding sloppy. As mentioned previously, note values aren't visible so you can't see where notes actually land in the piano roll while recording.
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- KVRAF
- 1790 posts since 30 Dec, 2012
No, I think you're probably just using too fine a quantise to be able to hear the difference during the looped playback? Try this to really hear that it is working:
1) Start a new Edit, add a MIDI input and a synth to the track
2) Make sure that "Loop" is turned on in the transport and the MIDI input record mode is set to "Merge newly recorded MIDI in to any existing clips"
3) Set the MIDI input quantise to "1 beat"
4) Turn the tempo down to 60 bpm and ensure the click track is on
5) Set the markers around 3 or 4 bars
6) Start recording, use the first bar to get a feel for the timing
• In the second bar, press a note on the beat for a short amount of time
• In the 3rd bar, press a note but between beats for a short amount of time (kind of like the off-beat if the tempo was twice as high)
7) Let that loop around
• You should hear on playback that you now have a string of beat-long notes played exactly on the beat
I've tried this several times and after hitting stop, the notes in the piano roll are the same as what are heard during the looped version of playback.
Hope this helps,
Dave
1) Start a new Edit, add a MIDI input and a synth to the track
2) Make sure that "Loop" is turned on in the transport and the MIDI input record mode is set to "Merge newly recorded MIDI in to any existing clips"
3) Set the MIDI input quantise to "1 beat"
4) Turn the tempo down to 60 bpm and ensure the click track is on
5) Set the markers around 3 or 4 bars
6) Start recording, use the first bar to get a feel for the timing
• In the second bar, press a note on the beat for a short amount of time
• In the 3rd bar, press a note but between beats for a short amount of time (kind of like the off-beat if the tempo was twice as high)
7) Let that loop around
• You should hear on playback that you now have a string of beat-long notes played exactly on the beat
I've tried this several times and after hitting stop, the notes in the piano roll are the same as what are heard during the looped version of playback.
Hope this helps,
Dave
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 393 posts since 4 Apr, 2006
Hello Dave.... Just to add clarity-input quantize works just as expected where the results are immediate, so no issue there. I'm speaking of midi clip quantization ( I think you overlooked my previous mention) where there seems to be a buffer hold of what's recorded, then dumped to the piano-role when the sequence is stopped. It seems that until you stop the sequence it doesn't play threw the QTZ module?dRowAudio wrote:No, I think you're probably just using too fine a quantise to be able to hear the difference during the looped playback? Try this to really hear that it is working:
1) Start a new Edit, add a MIDI input and a synth to the track
2) Make sure that "Loop" is turned on in the transport and the MIDI input record mode is set to "Merge newly recorded MIDI in to any existing clips"
3) Set the MIDI input quantise to "1 beat"
4) Turn the tempo down to 60 bpm and ensure the click track is on
5) Set the markers around 3 or 4 bars
6) Start recording, use the first bar to get a feel for the timing
• In the second bar, press a note on the beat for a short amount of time
• In the 3rd bar, press a note but between beats for a short amount of time (kind of like the off-beat if the tempo was twice as high)
7) Let that loop around
• You should hear on playback that you now have a string of beat-long notes played exactly on the beat
I've tried this several times and after hitting stop, the notes in the piano roll are the same as what are heard during the looped version of playback.
Hope this helps,
Dave
My process: I insert a blank midi clip then choose the 1/4 beat option for the midi clip which = a 16th note from what I gather from the manual? Merge record is enabled by default. Programs like the formerly named Sonar & Cubase have midi QTZ modules that quantize immediately, so I thought Waveforms clip Qtz worked the same. I don't use waveforms input Qtz feature because it only offers hard quantization & for some reason it's set to qtz both the start & ends. I never Qtz ends, so it's not usable for me. This is why I inquired about having qtz options for input Q. Using it for drums can have issues as well since I don't use one-shot mode for certain drums or percussion sounds. Those sounds obviously get chopped with Qtz end.
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- KVRAF
- 1790 posts since 30 Dec, 2012
Yes, it's working as expected, those are two different quantisation settings for different things.
The input quantisation is for notes that are currently be played live, i.e. part of the current recording operation.
The clip quantisation is for clips that are already part of the Edit.
If you record in merge mode, the incoming MIDI doesn't get committed to a clip until recording is stopped so doesn't pick up the clip that it's overlaying quantisation (what would happen if you aborted the recording? Or what would happen if you have two MIDI clips overlaid, each with different quantisation settings? What should the recording MIDI pick up?)
I think what you're really asking for is more flexible MIDI input quantisation settings which is a fair request and I've added it to our discussion list. No promises on when this will get implemented though I'm afraid.
The input quantisation is for notes that are currently be played live, i.e. part of the current recording operation.
The clip quantisation is for clips that are already part of the Edit.
If you record in merge mode, the incoming MIDI doesn't get committed to a clip until recording is stopped so doesn't pick up the clip that it's overlaying quantisation (what would happen if you aborted the recording? Or what would happen if you have two MIDI clips overlaid, each with different quantisation settings? What should the recording MIDI pick up?)
I think what you're really asking for is more flexible MIDI input quantisation settings which is a fair request and I've added it to our discussion list. No promises on when this will get implemented though I'm afraid.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 393 posts since 4 Apr, 2006
Ok...thanks!dRowAudio wrote:Yes, it's working as expected, those are two different quantisation settings for different things.
The input quantisation is for notes that are currently be played live, i.e. part of the current recording operation.
The clip quantisation is for clips that are already part of the Edit.
If you record in merge mode, the incoming MIDI doesn't get committed to a clip until recording is stopped so doesn't pick up the clip that it's overlaying quantisation (what would happen if you aborted the recording? Or what would happen if you have two MIDI clips overlaid, each with different quantisation settings? What should the recording MIDI pick up?)
I think what you're really asking for is more flexible MIDI input quantisation settings which is a fair request and I've added it to our discussion list. No promises on when this will get implemented though I'm afraid.
