MPE with Hardware Synths

[zerocrossing]

Best to submit tickets, I don't think they browse KVR much any more.

Would somebody be kind enough to summarise the current state of MPE in Bitwig (e.g. what needs fixing etc.)? I'm happy to submit a ticket but I pretty much gave up playing with my Linnstrument because it felt like very time I tried to get it to work in Bitwig I had to do something different. The lack of standardisation amongst VSTs didn't really help either!

I seem to recall having to toggle 'force MPE' a lot and the pitch bend setting on the Linnstrument was never correct for the device I was using. I seem to recall +- 48 semitones worked well for the Bitwig internal synths, but I had to change it to 24 or 12 for Madrona Labs stuff, and maybe something different again for Falcon? I also can't remember whether I needed to tick 'force MPE mode' or not; seemed to behave differently for each VST.

Well, that's not really Bitwig's fault, it's more a fault of the developer of the plugin. You just have to set up the pitch bend range for each plugin. Some plugins say things like 48, and what they mean is +-24. Even Roli's Dashboard calls the range "48" when they mean "+-48." There's no standard. I get that we're in early times of MPE, and I can push threw annoyances like that, but when a developer calls their DAW "MPE compatible" and then blocks MPE from being sent to a hardware synth...

[zerocrossing]

Just to make them know that it's a priority for a lot of us, I took the advice and submitted a support ticket. I suggest we all do this.

https://www.bitwig.com/en/support/tech-support.html

[pdxindy]

Just to make them know that it's a priority for a lot of us, I took the advice and submitted a support ticket. I suggest we all do this.

https://www.bitwig.com/en/support/tech-support.html

I also just sent another email to support...

[pdxindy]

I get that we're in early times of MPE, and I can push threw annoyances like that, but when a developer calls their DAW "MPE compatible" and then blocks MPE from being sent to a hardware synth...

Fortunately my Linnstrument can connect straight to many hardware synths and play them that way... recording the audio obviously. But still, would be much easier to just have a DAW that records the midi data produced by our controllers. That does not seem like a lot to ask.

[zerocrossing]

Still waiting....

[SteveElbows]

Well, today this issue made me very, very sad indeed.

I really thought that with the addition of better midi channel support in Bitwig 2.4, that I would finally be able to do this stuff properly. But I had forgotten just how limiting their Hardware Instrument thing is, and despite being able to preserve channel info in the hardware instrument settings, most of the useful MPE info is still thrown away before it is able to escape into the world via midi out.

I mean I could be wrong, maybe there is some clever way round this, but I'm stumped and given the history I'm not optimistic that its just some step I've missed.

Given that I just renewed my subscription so I could try this, that I got a Microsoft Surface to use with Bitwig, and that I have a shiny new Expert Sleepers FH-2 module for using my eurorack setup with MPE controllers (and recorded MPE tracks playing back from a DAW, oh wait lol), I am very annoyed.

The only consolation I have right now is that at least with the channel stuff in 2.4 I can see far less barriers to Bitwig getting the whole chain of things in a suitable state to offer this feature. But right now, unless someone can put me out of my misery by showing me the way, close but no cigar

[ThomasHelzle]

2.4 is in beta, so if anything does not work as expected, report it to beta@bitwig.com

Cheers,

Tom

[SteveElbows]

Thanks but its not a case of a 2.4 bug, but rather missing functionality.

I have had to switch to Tracktion Waveform for now, got what I needed working in 5 minutes.

[pdxindy]

Thanks but its not a case of a 2.4 bug, but rather missing functionality.

I have had to switch to Tracktion Waveform for now, got what I needed working in 5 minutes.

How do you know it isn't a bug?

Also, you did not even state what the missing functionality is (if that is the case)

[SteveElbows]

Thanks but its not a case of a 2.4 bug, but rather missing functionality.

I have had to switch to Tracktion Waveform for now, got what I needed working in 5 minutes.

How do you know it isn't a bug?

Also, you did not even state what the missing functionality is (if that is the case)

What is still missing is the same as what this entire thread has always been about, none of the expressive MPE midi stuff is output to hardware. So I didnt think I needed to state all the detail explicitly. But given the responses I have received have not been what I was expecting at all, I suppose I will spell it out more explicitly next time I try this.

[pdxindy]

Thanks but its not a case of a 2.4 bug, but rather missing functionality.

I have had to switch to Tracktion Waveform for now, got what I needed working in 5 minutes.

How do you know it isn't a bug?

Also, you did not even state what the missing functionality is (if that is the case)

What is still missing is the same as what this entire thread has always been about, none of the expressive MPE midi stuff is output to hardware. So I didnt think I needed to state all the detail explicitly. But given the responses I have received have not been what I was expecting at all, I suppose I will spell it out more explicitly next time I try this.

Is midi channel data being output now that Bitwig supports midi channels? When you say none of the expressive MPE midi stuff is being output, do you mean aftertouch and pitchbend data is not sent at all? Or are you saying that it is sent, but not differentiated into the individual midi channels?

I just read through the thread and it is the lack of midi channel support that has mainly been talked about. But now 2.4 beta has midi channel support, so the situation is changed. What was before missing functionality might now be a bug.

A number of people brought up the limitation of not being able to set the PB range in Bitwig and 2.4 Beta 2 had that added. If a number of people email the beta email about the Hardware Device, perhaps that will also change. Now is the time to speak up about it.

[ThomasHelzle]

Now is the time to speak up about it.

Exactly. And yes, be very specific about what the problem actually is, so that the devs can reproduce it and - if it's a bug - fix it or if it is what they call "missing functionality, add it, now that the basis functionality of Midi channels finally has arrived in Bitwig land.

Cheers,

Tom

[SteveElbows]

OK fine, I made a few presumptions by thinking people would know exactly what I meant, based on past parts of this thread such as not being able to force MPE mode when using a track with Hardware Instrument, and me only seeing blue expression modulation params when used with such a track (as opposed to green ones for tracks using bitwigs own MPE-capable soft instruments).

Combined with the length of time that passed since I even used Bitwig due to these issues in the past, I can see that I need to double-check my setup and report back with more clear info. I also have a new MPE controller today (Linnstrument) so that will give me some more combinations to test (was using Roli Seaboard Blocks when I posted the other day).

I guess I was also kind of hoping that someone else who was active in this thread in the past and had a complete understanding of the issues in the past would have tried the 2.4 betas and responding either agreeing with what I had observed or telling me an idiot I was for not setting things up properly! But since that doesnt seem to be the case I will have another go myself and let you know, hopefully tomorrow.

Cheers.

[Hez]

I think the number of people using MPE with hardware synths is still pretty low in general, let alone actively testing with the latest Bitwig beta release. I experiment a bit with MPE + software synths and I'm now pretty happy with Bitwig's implementation. You may need to blaze the MPE + hardware synth trail yourself!

[pdxindy]

OK fine, I made a few presumptions by thinking people would know exactly what I meant, based on past parts of this thread such as not being able to force MPE mode when using a track with Hardware Instrument, and me only seeing blue expression modulation params when used with such a track (as opposed to green ones for tracks using bitwigs own MPE-capable soft instruments).

Combined with the length of time that passed since I even used Bitwig due to these issues in the past, I can see that I need to double-check my setup and report back with more clear info. I also have a new MPE controller today (Linnstrument) so that will give me some more combinations to test (was using Roli Seaboard Blocks when I posted the other day).

I guess I was also kind of hoping that someone else who was active in this thread in the past and had a complete understanding of the issues in the past would have tried the 2.4 betas and responding either agreeing with what I had observed or telling me an idiot I was for not setting things up properly! But since that doesnt seem to be the case I will have another go myself and let you know, hopefully tomorrow.

Cheers.

Look forward to your results!

I have an Analog Keys... It can receive on 4 channels so if each of the voices are set to mono, and the same 4 presets loaded, it can do MPE. But it's still packed up in a box... so I have not tried with a hardware synth in forever.

With 2.4 beta, Bitwig is working well with my soft synths and Linnstrument.

If I have time... which I may not, I'll break out the AK and try it too...

I think there is a good chance we can get a change at this time... if it's needed and well articulated.