Thanks for the coupon..... and.....

[Elektronisch]

So to make it clear, if im from europe and i want to buy UHE product it doesnt change anything if i do before july 2nd or after ?

In Germany you'll save around 4% after the switch, compared to last week when we checked the USD <-> EUR conversion rate.

hmm but i suppose its also because VAT is 19%?

here in Lithuania its 21%

You'd save about 6% then.

Oh thats not bad at all and does it change if i buy without VAT (i use my VAT number) ?

[zvenx]

Hi, Is there anyone not in Europe/EU who benefits?
If so, my 'issue' is "For most of you around the world, our stuff will get slightly cheaper (we reckon 5% on average)." is inaccurate and maybe should be change to for most you in europe/eu

rsp

[Urs]

Urs, you make fantastic instruments, and I am generally a big fan, but this... can't get behind it, sorry. I can imagine the paperwork of trying to manage 500 different tax jusisdictions and so on must be intense, but to end up charging now 16 percent extra to a large number of customers... cant see how this helps anyone at all outside the EU

Yeah, can’t see myself purchasing any more plugins if I’m paying a tax I’m not legally obliged to pay. Sorry.

You might want to research each company you buy from then - because this is what many companies have always done. They just never told you up front.

[Urs]

Hi, Is there anyone not in Europe/EU who benefits?
If so, my 'issue' is "For most of you around the world, our stuff will get slightly cheaper (we reckon 5% on average)." is inaccurate and maybe should be change to for most you in europe/eu

rsp

India, Turkey, Belarus, Russia, Norway... and every other month more countries add taxes for online purchases.

Close to no change: Switzerland, Australia, Japan, South Korea, some states in the US (I have no exact number)

[Urs]

Oh thats not bad at all and does it change if i buy without VAT (i use my VAT number) ?

Businesses can of course deduct the VAT.

[perpetual3]

Urs, you make fantastic instruments, and I am generally a big fan, but this... can't get behind it, sorry. I can imagine the paperwork of trying to manage 500 different tax jusisdictions and so on must be intense, but to end up charging now 16 percent extra to a large number of customers... cant see how this helps anyone at all outside the EU

Yeah, can’t see myself purchasing any more plugins if I’m paying a tax I’m not legally obliged to pay. Sorry.

You might want to research each company you buy from then - because this is what many companies have always done. They just never told you up front.

Duly noted.

Again, I regret the move. I’ll do my best to purchase the remaining U-He plugins before the change. My first Vst instrument was Filterscape, by the way.

[perpetual3]

I'm trying really hard not say anything that belongs in HP, but I'm hoping for a positive change soon.

Somehow I know exactly what you mean.

????

[perpetual3]

Urs, you make fantastic instruments, and I am generally a big fan, but this... can't get behind it, sorry. I can imagine the paperwork of trying to manage 500 different tax jusisdictions and so on must be intense, but to end up charging now 16 percent extra to a large number of customers... cant see how this helps anyone at all outside the EU

Yeah, can’t see myself purchasing any more plugins if I’m paying a tax I’m not legally obliged to pay. Sorry.

You might want to research each company you buy from then - because this is what many companies have always done. They just never told you up front.

The fact remains: in the case of UHE, I’ll be paying a tax I’m not legally obligated to pay, right?

That is technically, correct?

[Urs]

The fact remains: in the case of UHE, I’ll be paying a tax I’m not legally obligated to pay, right?

That is technically, correct?

It's a matter of perspective. In my view we are slightly raising the product price. We then take over the VAT for everyone who has to pay for it. This way everybody pays the same, which is commonly seen as the fairer pricing model.

We have no advantage from this. We gain nothing, we actually lose money. But we see no other way to comply with laws.

[perpetual3]

The fact remains: in the case of UHE, I’ll be paying a tax I’m not legally obligated to pay, right?

That is technically, correct?

It's a matter of perspective. In my view we are slightly raising the product price. We then take over the VAT for everyone who has to pay for it. This way everybody pays the same, which is commonly seen as the fairer pricing model.

We have no advantage from this. We gain nothing, we actually lose money. But we see no other way to comply with laws.

That sounds reasonable, Urs. But this is reality if I’m not mistaken:

1) the price of the software is. e.g. €129 MINUS whatever VAT is collected for EU citizens.

2) a US customer pays €129, but no VAT or tax is deducted to comply with laws, in the case that a state does not require sales tax on the purchase, or the case where the required amount is less than the VAT.

So what happens to that extra money? Do you keep the extra? Do you pay the government (state in the US) more than the requisite amount (in which case they would issue a tax refund)?

Why not just offer a base price, and the calculate the exact tax based on the billing information of the customer? Isn’t that standard industry practice anyway?

I guess my main question, which I’m not expecting nor requesting an answer to by the way, is what was the problem anyway that necessitates such a change? Convertion and tax are just calculations handled by shopping carts and payment solutions anyway. I used to work at a internet credit card payment gateway, and all the information required to comply with tax laws was easily generated in a multitude of ways to integrate with accounting software. PayPal does the same thing.

I like you, I remember the first days of U-HE, and I’m not trying to bust your balls, but I just can’t make sense of why, on the face of it, non-EU markets like the US will now be subsidizing the VAT for the EU market. I don’t understand why it’s the lesser of two evils when there is off-the-shelf software that makes it easy to comply with tax laws from all over the world.

[Chapelle]

---

[zvenx]

Thanks.
Learn something new every day.
Rsp

Hi, Is there anyone not in Europe/EU who benefits?
If so, my 'issue' is "For most of you around the world, our stuff will get slightly cheaper (we reckon 5% on average)." is inaccurate and maybe should be change to for most you in europe/eu

rsp

India, Turkey, Belarus, Russia, Norway... and every other month more countries add taxes for online purchases.

Close to no change: Switzerland, Australia, Japan, South Korea, some states in the US (I have no exact number)

[Urs]

Will this change of currency in your shop have an effect on the prices at online shops that continue to sell your plugins in USD? I mean, will you have something like a new separate MSRP in USD based on the new prices in EUR from your shop, or will the USD prices at the retailers stay the same for now?

Depends on how much they cannibalize our revenue stream. If we go bankrupt, we'll stop selling through these.

[Urs]

So what happens to that extra money? Do you keep the extra?

I can not see people protest and insinuate wrong-doing as much in the forums of shops who have been doing this like forever. The absolute majority of shops with ShareIt IIRC.

[lunardigs]

... In Germany however, VAT is 19% ...

19%! Wow. Sales tax in Texas is 8.25%, which is not the lowest in the US, but we also have no state income tax here. Meanwhile, 19% VAT in Germany! Why is this tolerated? What, ostensibly, is the gov giving you in return? ... Urs, seriously, you should move your operation to the US. I'll give y'all a place to stay for a while. I'll teach you how to ride a horse (that's how we commute down here). You can meet your German counterparts who founded Texas. It'll be fun, and profitable once you get situated!