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BlackWinny
KVRAF
 
3481 posts since 17 Jun, 2013, from very close to Paris, France

Postby BlackWinny; Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:34 am Re: Korg updates its Legacy Collection with a new Arp Odyssey emulation

Buddha's answer to the question below the picture.



DO AS ME : SIT DOWN AND WAIT.

Image

Oh Master of all the Times, tell us, what is in Japan and throughout the world the best behavior to have when the time is long as en endless life ?
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
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Aloysius
KVRAF
 
21743 posts since 11 Aug, 2008, from a computer

Postby Aloysius; Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:45 am Re: Korg updates its Legacy Collection with a new Arp Odyssey emulation

Go to the pub
Impeach 64. Keep 32-bit Plug-ins alive.
yul
KVRian
 
844 posts since 26 Sep, 2002, from Montreal, CANADA

Postby yul; Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:15 pm Re: Korg updates its Legacy Collection with a new Arp Odyssey emulation

Zen.jpg
And this
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EnGee
KVRAF
 
4688 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Postby EnGee; Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:56 pm Re: Korg updates its Legacy Collection with a new Arp Odyssey emulation

Aloysius wrote:Go to the pub

Or don't go to the pub for two months and buy a good monitor! :hihi:

Now, seriously, are those with 2k/4k monitors able to see the fonts in Mono/Poly and Polysix? I'm not talking about a tiny interface but about the clarity of fonts (not the size). I wish I can find a big monitor but with clarity of my phone (about 400 ppi)! But I suppose it would be super expensive :(
My lovely setup: Windows 10, Reason 10, Cubase 9.5, AudioBox iTwo, Casio PX-5S, Korg microKey & nanoKontrol and a bunch of great soft synths and instruments :)
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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
 
22502 posts since 27 Jul, 2005, from the wilds of wanny

Postby thecontrolcentre; Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:39 pm Re: Korg updates its Legacy Collection with a new Arp Odyssey emulation

BlackWinny wrote:Image

Is that Korg's new mantra?
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BlackWinny
KVRAF
 
3481 posts since 17 Jun, 2013, from very close to Paris, France

Postby BlackWinny; Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:18 pm Re: Korg updates its Legacy Collection with a new Arp Odyssey emulation

thecontrolcentre wrote:
BlackWinny wrote:Image

Is that Korg's new mantra?

Image
Yes, Honourable Great Spirit.
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
 
4607 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Corporate States of America

Postby Jace-BeOS; Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:21 pm Re: Korg updates its Legacy Collection with a new Arp Odyssey emulation

EnGee wrote:
Aloysius wrote:Go to the pub

Or don't go to the pub for two months and buy a good monitor! :hihi:

Now, seriously, are those with 2k/4k monitors able to see the fonts in Mono/Poly and Polysix? I'm not talking about a tiny interface but about the clarity of fonts (not the size). I wish I can find a big monitor but with clarity of my phone (about 400 ppi)! But I suppose it would be super expensive :(


It's all going to depend on whether the text is made of bitmap content or rendered live from a font. If the text in the GUI is part of the bitmap background, then it will look as sharp or as blurry as the bitmap allows (currently, only iOS Korg apps GUI bitmaps are created at high PPI sizes). If the text is rendered onto the interface live, it could be rendered at the appropriate PPI and be sharp at all display modes (if they use the OS text rendering API and not some custom API).

I've no personal experience with Korg plugins in use on high PPI desktop displays, so I can't say what the text is actually like on them. However, the primary GUI backdrop looks like a bitmap to me (rather than scalable vector graphics). Static text is almost guaranteed to be part of the GUI background bitmap. Anything that changes (patch names, value numbers, etc) is live text (unless Korg created a bitmap text system, because they felt no system fonts were appropriate for their GUI design).
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
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BlackWinny
KVRAF
 
3481 posts since 17 Jun, 2013, from very close to Paris, France

Postby BlackWinny; Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:29 pm Re: Korg updates its Legacy Collection with a new Arp Odyssey emulation

EnGee wrote:
Aloysius wrote:Go to the pub

Or don't go to the pub for two months and buy a good monitor! :hihi:

Now, seriously, are those with 2k/4k monitors able to see the fonts in Mono/Poly and Polysix? I'm not talking about a tiny interface but about the clarity of fonts (not the size). I wish I can find a big monitor but with clarity of my phone (about 400 ppi)! But I suppose it would be super expensive :(


In Japan everything is small, noble foreigner.

Except Japan itself and the spirits' house at the top of the eternal Fujisan.
Image
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
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BlackWinny
KVRAF
 
3481 posts since 17 Jun, 2013, from very close to Paris, France

Postby BlackWinny; Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:37 pm Re: Korg updates its Legacy Collection with a new Arp Odyssey emulation

yul wrote:
Zen.jpg
And this

The sound of only one hand is the sound of the wind.

And when you don't hear anymore the wind in the pine trees, the tea is ready.

Image
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
EnGee
KVRAF
 
4688 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Postby EnGee; Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:58 pm Re: Korg updates its Legacy Collection with a new Arp Odyssey emulation

Jace-BeOS wrote:
It's all going to depend on whether the text is made of bitmap content or rendered live from a font. If the text in the GUI is part of the bitmap background, then it will look as sharp or as blurry as the bitmap allows (currently, only iOS Korg apps GUI bitmaps are created at high PPI sizes). If the text is rendered onto the interface live, it could be rendered at the appropriate PPI and be sharp at all display modes (if they use the OS text rendering API and not some custom API).

I've no personal experience with Korg plugins in use on high PPI desktop displays, so I can't say what the text is actually like on them. However, the primary GUI backdrop looks like a bitmap to me (rather than scalable vector graphics). Static text is almost guaranteed to be part of the GUI background bitmap. Anything that changes (patch names, value numbers, etc) is live text (unless Korg created a bitmap text system, because they felt no system fonts were appropriate for their GUI design).

Yes, I suspected this! The problem is the bitmap based graphic. It won't be good unless run in the resolution intended.
Anyway, all are not bad because I think the tooltip is font based (not bitmap), so it is clear for me. So, the only solution for me is just using the synths till I memorize the what each knob does. The tooltip will help me avoid reading the actual bitmap fonts :)

Polysix_tooltip.jpg
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My lovely setup: Windows 10, Reason 10, Cubase 9.5, AudioBox iTwo, Casio PX-5S, Korg microKey & nanoKontrol and a bunch of great soft synths and instruments :)
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
 
6956 posts since 13 Jun, 2001, from Somewhere else, on principle

Postby BONES; Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:58 pm Re: Korg updates its Legacy Collection with a new Arp Odyssey emulation

Harry_HH wrote:But isnt that a additional piece, as well, to carry with you? I try to avoid those.

It's as thin as your phone, you can put in your pocket. You can't put your tablet or laptop in your pocket so you'll almost certainly have it in a bag, or at least in a sleeve. The Arc Touch fits comfortably in a neoprene laptop sleeve without stretching it. I carry mine in the zippered pocket on the front flap of the iPad bag my Surface lives in when it's out and about.
Image
EnGee wrote:
Aloysius wrote:Go to the pub

Or don't go to the pub for two months and buy a good monitor! :hihi:

Or go to the pub on a Friday after work and get a monitor really cheap from a guy with a white van.
Now, seriously, are those with 2k/4k monitors able to see the fonts in Mono/Poly and Polysix? I'm not talking about a tiny interface but about the clarity of fonts (not the size). I wish I can find a big monitor but with clarity of my phone (about 400 ppi)! But I suppose it would be super expensive :(

Don't be ridiculous. It's not the 400dpi that makes your phone screen look good, it's probably that it's AMOLED (unless it's an iPhone, in which case the screen probably doesn't really look as good as you think it does). It also depends on lots of software tricks your OS does to make things look good. If you have a PC (which stands for Proper Computer), you can run the ClearType utility to optimise font anti-aliasing to suit your vision. It only takes a few minutes of picking which line of text looks best and you'll get amazing font clarity. Of course, as Jace points out, if they are pre-rendered bitmaps then it won't matter. If it's any help, though, I can read the labels on the PolySix image you've posted very clearly on my 29" Cinema display at work, which also runs at 2560x1440, and those knob labels are stupidly small and don't appear to be anti-aliased at all.
NOVAkILL 3.0 : Surface Pro 2 (Win10), Zoom U24, Orion 64 bit, Maschine Mikro, Elektron Analog Keys, Ultranova, Rocket, MicroMonsta, Seaboard Rise 25
EnGee
KVRAF
 
4688 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Postby EnGee; Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:56 pm Re: Korg updates its Legacy Collection with a new Arp Odyssey emulation

No BONES! PPI does matter, but to a degree. My phone is not AMLOD AMOLED or iPhone. It's just a Chinese Xioami phone. The screen is sharp and the fonts are very clear because it's ~401 ppi (the screen). It's similar to dots per inch but not identical.

Anyway, this is the point, that the tooltip is readable because it's not bitmap, so it will be readable also on 2k/4k monitor whatever the size :)
Last edited by EnGee on Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My lovely setup: Windows 10, Reason 10, Cubase 9.5, AudioBox iTwo, Casio PX-5S, Korg microKey & nanoKontrol and a bunch of great soft synths and instruments :)
BBFG#
KVRAF
 
5323 posts since 28 Apr, 2013

Postby BBFG#; Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:58 pm Re: Korg updates its Legacy Collection with a new Arp Odyssey emulation

Any good Castanet player can clap with one hand.
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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
 
4607 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Corporate States of America

Postby Jace-BeOS; Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:15 pm Re: Korg updates its Legacy Collection with a new Arp Odyssey emulation

BONES wrote:Don't be ridiculous. It's not the 400dpi that makes your phone screen look good,


EnGee: It absolutely is the high PPI that makes your screen look "good".

BONES is trolling (or still doesn't understand the facts, despite being repeatedly told them).

There are multiple factors that impact a display's quality. We could debate about LCD vs OLED without ever touching on readability of GUIs and text. Brightness and contrast ratios are good examples of other things that affect readability (CRT and OLED have better contrast ratios than LCD, for example). However, pixel density is the primary issue.

For anyone interested, here's a PPI calculator and a list of known device pixel dimensions & PPI count:

http://dpi.lv/

BONES wrote:(unless it's an iPhone, in which case the screen probably doesn't really look as good as you think it does).


See? Trolling. If you're happy with it, that's what matters. BONES seems happy with what he has, which would be fine if he wasn't constantly denigrating other people's choices and promoting wrong information.

BONES wrote:It also depends on lots of software tricks your OS does to make things look good.


BONES is referring to antialiasing. That's one "trick", not "lots of" tricks. There are different antialiasing algorithms, some of which were even patented. On devices with low PPI, antialiasing helps the cosmetic appearance of text at certain sizes (get too small and it's disabled because all it does is make the text blurry, harming readability). It sometimes helps readability for some people, but some people also hate antialiasing (I'm not one of them).

However, the higher the display PPI, the more pixels you have to work with, and the less antialiasing is actually needed (and becomes invisible to the human eye or can be left out entirely). That's why PPI matters most for live text rendering (but not bitmap text).

A very simplified explanation of antialiasing:

Think of pixels as squares laid into a rigid grid. You can't make smooth curves with these materials. No matter how many squares you use to make a curved line, you'll always have 90° angles/stepping between squares placed point to point (diagonally). The larger the squares, the more obviously not-curved the lines are. The smaller the squares (pixels), the more you can stuff into a smaller place, and the more you can fool your eyes/brain into seeing a curve made of what is actually squares.

Because desktop computer displays historically had 96 pixels per inch or less (72 and less in fairly old stuff), the pixels are too large and too few to fool the eyes into seeing smooth curves. Antialiasing was invented to improve the cosmetics (and sometimes readability) of the many curves used in text on a low PPI display.

Antialiasing smooths the staircase appearance (aliasing) by inserting extra pixels into the empty 90° spaces between the point-to-point arranged pixels. The inserted pixel uses a color that is a mix between the font color and the background color. Your eye perceives the inserted pixel as "not quite there" or "soft". It tricks the eye into sort of seeing a curve made of three or more "soft" pixels instead of a 90° angle of "solid" pixels. The result is cosmetically nicer text, especially at medium and large sizes (but it's a mess at small sizes and isn't usually used below 12 or 10 points, unless you force it).

Different algorithms do it in different ways, but the above should be fairly accurate enough to give you an idea of what it is and how it works.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=antialiased+f ... &ia=images

As displays become more densely packed with smaller and smaller pixels, the need to use antialiasing to trick the eyes into seeing curves is less and less. It's still used, though (on my iPhone 6s at least, which has 326 PPI, and I can only just see it). If you put a magnifying lens over a 400PPI iPhone 6 or 7s Plus, you can probably see the antialiasing of the curves on the text (unless Apple has chosen to stop using antialiasing at that PPI to save CPU cycles).

BONES wrote:If you have a PC (which stands for Proper Computer)


I'm pretty sure trolling is against the rules of KVR.

BONES wrote:you can run the ClearType utility to optimise font anti-aliasing to suit your vision. It only takes a few minutes of picking which line of text looks best and you'll get amazing font clarity.


This is subjective. BONES' opinion on what constitutes "amazing clarity" is entirely different from my own. Fair enough.

Regardless, antialiasing is the act of intentionally creating blur to trick the human brain into perceiving curves that don't exist. It does not, and can not, provide clarity, by definition.

Take note that the live text in the GUI (as per EnGee's screenshot) is small and is not antialiased. Since the GUI cannot be enlarged, the text will never change size and never be large enough for the Windows text rendering API to start antialiasing it.

If you change Windows' ClearType settings so that Windows antialiases at very small sizes (I don't remember what the minimum is), this might enable antialiasing in the Korg apps' live text... but it might not. The developer might not have enabled antialiasing in those text objects (or might not have used the Windows API text objects).

Even if it does antialias, it might just look like a blurry mess at such a small size. EnGee might be best served by running small GUIs on a low resolution display, as he previously inquired about. Seeing larger ugly text is better than seeing tiny blurry text.

I hope some of this info is useful.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
EnGee
KVRAF
 
4688 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Postby EnGee; Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:51 pm Re: Korg updates its Legacy Collection with a new Arp Odyssey emulation

It's useful thank you :)
Anyway, I really like the 32" with the 2k resolution. I can manage Korg synths and Reason devices in some way I hope :D
My lovely setup: Windows 10, Reason 10, Cubase 9.5, AudioBox iTwo, Casio PX-5S, Korg microKey & nanoKontrol and a bunch of great soft synths and instruments :)
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