SOLVED: Issue with Collective

[Wolfram Franke]

Hi everyone,

sorry for all of the problems and inconvenience you've experienced. We have just uploaded Collective V1.1.8 to the Collective Beta section on the Tracktion Marketplace. Feel free to try it out and tell us if it works.

Best wishes,

Wolfram

[zzz00m]

[edit: duplicate; removed]

[zzz00m]

I have not tried it in another DAW, although as a means of ruling out the path issue, that's certainly an idea.

Of course, I would much rather have it work in the DAW I purchased. I take it you're able to use it fine in W9 as well as Reaper? I'm curious what's the ratio of "successfully using Collective" to "people having issues with it." When it worked for me, it was great.

I do understand wanting Collective to work in the DAW it came with! I had various issues with Collective last year, forget which versions. Including missing sounds, etc. That was a shame because Collective has a very good potential as a hybrid sampler/VA synth with multiple layers of 4 oscillators each.

That issue finally resolved itself for me after several Collective version upgrades, re-installs, etc. Not sure what was the actual remedy for me. But it did fail for me in alternate DAWs. So in that case I knew to focus on Collective itself, not Waveform.

Since I have several DAW programs installed, the first thing I ALWAYS do if I encounter an issue with any plugin, is to launch it in another DAW host to see if I can replicate the problem. That helps rule out the plugin or the host as the cause. Gives you a better focus for problem isolation and troubleshooting. This method works for any plugin, any host, any time. If you work with DAWs long enough, you will discover this secret eventually.

For some reason Collective 1.1.7 is actually working flawlessly for me in any host at this time on Windows 10 v1709.

Is it just the Collective presets that load samples that are having issues? How about sounds that only use the VA waveforms? For example, patch "AN U AND I" only uses 1 sine and 2 pulse oscillators, no samples.

[magicmusic]

I have now newest and fastest hardware(see signature) and collective 1.1.8 still work crazy randomly. I have open 2 song project window tabs. when i choose in song 2 melotron flutes in 1 collective, sound stop 0.3 sec after press key on midikeyboard and hold. but sound is not mute forever. when press another midi keyboard key sound is hear 0.3 sec and stop again. this happen too when remove and add a new collective in this song.

but when i click in tab to select song 1 i can choose the flute and it work ok.

another strange thing is when i have in song 1 my midi keyboard assign to a track, and in song 2 assign to a track when press a key on midikeyboard the instrument on song 2 and song 1 play. normaly the input should only go the the song that is active in the tab

maybe collective do not like, when it is use in 2 songs that are open. other with problems, does it help when only 1 song is open and project is reload that it work ?.

so it seem all vst do sound calculations from all songs that are open. or is there a setting, that only the sound in active tab is process ?

[zzz00m]

another strange thing is when i have in song 1 my midi keyboard assign to a track, and in song 2 assign to a track when press a key on midikeyboard the instrument on song 2 and song 1 play. normaly the input should only go the the song that is active in the tab

I see this as well, using Waveform 9.2.1, but not just with Collective.

I tested Waveform with two new blank edits, and assigned an instance of AIR Hybrid 3 to track 1 on each edit. I assigned a unique sound to each instance of Hybrid, and could clearly hear both edits playing as I played the keys on my controller.

Edit: after testing a bit more, I discovered that by minimizing the Waveform GUI to the Windows taskbar with either edit #1 or edit #2 in focus (but both tabs active), just the correct sound from the edit in focus would play when the window was maximized again.

[magicmusic]

yes this happen with all vsti. but maybe collective does not like when two diffrent songs access it. you can also press play then switch to 2. song tab and press play here. then the 2 songs play together. in reaper there is a switch, that when switch to other somng tab the previous song tab song is stop and loose midi input. this i have enable. in cubase and studio one only the active tab is play by default

[magicmusic]

i start songplay in song tab 1 and then switch to tab 2 and start that songplay. then i open a collective from a song and after double click on a new collective sound(in browser), whole waveform crash.

I think they should test collective when more songs run, maybe they see the problems sooner. even if no song play in the tab that is not display, but the midi input from collective must process in the inactive tab always, or collective can not process a sound on inactive tab when midi keyboard send notes.

edit:

i test again and i get another crash when i select rock kit. sometimes it take long time that it crash. i use always before crash use this plugin as midi preview and change later the sound. maybe the plugin as midi preview make problems too

[Wolfram Franke]

Hi everyone,

Collective gets all its MIDI notes from the host it is running in. It doesn't care if one or two songs are open and it can be instanciated multiple times in any of the songs without interacting with any of the other instances, so the problem must happen in the host. Will forward this info to the Waveform developers.

Best wishes,

Wolfram

[magicmusic]

with other VSTI i get this crashes not. please try on a win 10 64 with 4 core or 6 core cpu. play a song and change for 10 minutes often the sound in collective browser. open diffrent collective switch between them and change sound. i think sooner or later in 10 minutes test you must see the problem too and crash. because i get this crash on lots diffrent hardware.

it happen also that collective does not remember the choosed display tags in collective browser. when close window and open again the same window then the previeous tags(percussion for example) are all lost and

[zzz00m]

Hi everyone,

Collective gets all its MIDI notes from the host it is running in. It doesn't care if one or two songs are open and it can be instanciated multiple times in any of the songs without interacting with any of the other instances, so the problem must happen in the host. Will forward this info to the Waveform developers.

Best wishes,

Wolfram

Agreed and thanks! The host should be consistently muting, or filtering, the MIDI inputs for any song not currently in focus.

[dRowAudio]

Hi everyone, a quick note on how MIDI inputs work in Waveform.
If you have MIDI inputs assigned to multiple open Edits, they will all receive this input no matter which tab has focus.
In order to disable this without un-assigning MIDI inputs I recommend you use "Options" -> "Run audio engine when stopped" and turn it off for Edit's which you don't want to play.

We do agree this is a bit clunky though and will add it as a feature request. However, this is unlikely to see an immediate implementation.


With that in mind, has the Collective v1.1.8 beta (available from your downloads page on tracktion.com) fixed the silence issues for everyone?

[magicmusic]

"Run audio engine when stopped" stop on active tab when a song is not play too the play with midi keyboard. i often have stop and play with midi keyboard

[zzz00m]

"Run audio engine when stopped" stop on active tab when a song is not play too the play with midi keyboard. i often have stop and play with midi keyboard

It appears that the easy way to solve this is just by adding mute/solo buttons to the master section, as each edit has a unique master section. If you could just "solo" the edit that you are working with, the other outputs would remain silent.

But this also makes me wonder what CPU impact this has if all of the instruments are processing MIDI messages in the background for every edit you have open that is receiving them?

I realize that this is all off-topic and should probably be moved to another thread, as it isn't specifically related to Collective. But it is important.

[dRowAudio]

"Run audio engine when stopped" stop on active tab when a song is not play too the play with midi keyboard. i often have stop and play with midi keyboard

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by this.

"Run audio engine when stopped", if unticked, will unload the audio graph when playback stops, meaning MIDI input won't work. If you have a MIDI input assigned, untick "Run audio engine when stopped", stop playback and press some notes, you wont get any synth output and a visual warning you informing why.


@zzz00m, this is also a good reason to disable "Run audio engine when stopped", pretty much the only reason really, to save CPU when the Edit isn't active.

Master solo/mute is one option but not really how the mix bus works, everything in an Edit is self-contained, even the previews are themselves tiny Edits so soloing between Edit's would be a bit of a break from this relationship.

I think adding something to either:
1) Avoid any active inputs when the Edit doesn't have focus
2) Disable (and automatically re-enable) "Run audio engine when stopped" when an Edit loses focus

Ideally, I'd like to add some Javascript handlers so you can run your own custom scripts when Edits gain/lose focus but I don't really have bandwidth for that any time soon.

I can say that this has been a pain when we've done trade shows in the past so expect it to be sorted in some form for NAMM next year

[magicmusic]

"Run audio engine when stopped" stop on active tab when a song is not play too the play with midi keyboard. i often have stop and play with midi keyboard

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by this.

"Run audio engine when stopped", if unticked, will unload the audio graph when playback stops, meaning MIDI input won't work. If you have a MIDI input assigned, untick "Run audio engine when stopped", stop playback and press some notes, you wont get any synth output and a visual warning you informing why.

[/quote]

I mean this.when switch off audio engine when stop is not usefull. I know no daw that allow not realtime play with midi keyboard when stop.