The Wagtunes Corner
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21196 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
4th track from my upcoming CD "The Vocaloids Live At Carnegie Hall"
Lost In The Ages Of Time
Oh my where have the years all gone
My God oh oh oh oh
The past comes back to haunt me now
What next I just don't know
So I keep searching
But I just can't find
Cause I'm still in denial
I'm lost in the ages of time
It seems wasn't so long ago
My God oh oh oh oh
I was simply a kid back then
What next I just don't know
Repeat Chorus
And so here I am present day
My God oh oh oh oh
Stand here without a word to say
What next I just don't know
Repeat Chorus
https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... lead-vocal
Lost In The Ages Of Time
Oh my where have the years all gone
My God oh oh oh oh
The past comes back to haunt me now
What next I just don't know
So I keep searching
But I just can't find
Cause I'm still in denial
I'm lost in the ages of time
It seems wasn't so long ago
My God oh oh oh oh
I was simply a kid back then
What next I just don't know
Repeat Chorus
And so here I am present day
My God oh oh oh oh
Stand here without a word to say
What next I just don't know
Repeat Chorus
https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... lead-vocal
- KVRAF
- 5958 posts since 16 Aug, 2017 from UK
Very, very catchy, I had to listen to it again.
Is materialism devouring your musical output?
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21196 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Did you hear any phasing issues?The Noodlist wrote:Very, very catchy, I had to listen to it again.
- KVRAF
- 5958 posts since 16 Aug, 2017 from UK
Dunno, nothing jumps out, I enjoyed listening to it.wagtunes wrote:Did you hear any phasing issues?The Noodlist wrote:Very, very catchy, I had to listen to it again.
I'm currently listening through an HP monitor speakers, I'll have a listen with headphones
I know from experience, reverb and stereo wideners can have cause phase issues.
Might be worth asking someone with more of an idea than me.
Is materialism devouring your musical output?
- KVRAF
- 5958 posts since 16 Aug, 2017 from UK
On a detailed listen, take this with a pinch of salt.
I thinks it's the side information, it's a bit boxy and contains low frequencies and maybe too much information.
Have you used a low shelf opposed to a highpass filter?
I thinks it's the side information, it's a bit boxy and contains low frequencies and maybe too much information.
Have you used a low shelf opposed to a highpass filter?
Last edited by The Noodlist on Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Is materialism devouring your musical output?
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21196 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
That's the Vienna Pro MIR 24 Sound Stage. I've tried to cut out as much between 200 and 500 as I can without killing the mix altogether. The sound stage was not really designed for non orchestral instruments. It has an internal EQ but the problem is, if I compensate for the non orchestral stuff, it kills the orchestral stuff and the setting is global. In other words, it's for the whole hall.The Noodlist wrote:On a detailed listen, take this with a pinch of salt. I thinks it's the side information, it's a bit boxy.
I knew going in that if I tried to mix rock drums, bass and piano with the strings, brass and winds, I was going to run into trouble and I did. I've surgically altered this as much as possible without killing the "live" sound.
So yes, you are absolutely right. There is a bit of boxiness to this entire CD. That's the hall sound.
Vienna MIR Pro 24 is an incredible piece of software for placing orchestral instruments on a sound stage in a traditional orchestral setup. With Pro 24 you're limited to 24 instances, which is fine because I don't plan on using more than that in any mix, though I am coming close to maxing out on this collection of songs.
Part of me will be very glad when this is over because from here on it, I'm not going to mix the two. It's too hard.
- KVRAF
- 5958 posts since 16 Aug, 2017 from UK
In situations where I was stuck, I tried Melda's MFreeformEqualizer, it guided me in the what I thought was the right direction. I set it to align my track to a pink noise curve.
I found, I have a habit, maybe due several factors, of adding too much bass and not enough highs.
It's on the wish list, It gave me an alternative insight. It's not a silver bullet, but I'd like to see it as a guide.
I found, I have a habit, maybe due several factors, of adding too much bass and not enough highs.
It's on the wish list, It gave me an alternative insight. It's not a silver bullet, but I'd like to see it as a guide.
Is materialism devouring your musical output?
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21196 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Well, for starters, I don't own it and am so broke right now after my Vienna purchase that I can't even afford a stick of gum and on top of that, this kind of surgical precision is beyond my skill level. I can do basic things and that's about it. And under normal conditions I know how to remove that boxy sound. But in this case, I either live with the hall sound and keep the "live" sound or a shred it to pieces and defeat the purpose of this particular CD.The Noodlist wrote:In situations where I was stuck, I tried Melda's MFreeformEqualizer, it guided me in the what I thought was the right direction. I set it to align my track to a pink noise curve.
I found, I have a habit, maybe due several factors, of adding too much bass and not enough highs.
It's on the wish list, It gave me an alternative insight. It's not a silver bullet, but I'd like to see it as a guide.
I've opted to keep the live sound and will, of course, live with the consequences.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21196 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Another one from my "Vocaloids Live At Carnegie Hall" CD that I'm almost done with. Am having a blast doing this one.
What The Heart Doesn't Know
What the heart doesn't know
Can not hide for long
What the heart can not feel
Is revealed in song
The pain is real
When you can't feel
But we make a choice
And we raise our voice
And we go into the void
What the heart leaves behind
Makes the past seem right
What the heart fails to learn
Is revealed in flight
When minds can't cope
We give up hope
What the heart leads us to
Is what we must find
What the heart doesn't know
What the heart doesn't know
https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... lead-vocal
What The Heart Doesn't Know
What the heart doesn't know
Can not hide for long
What the heart can not feel
Is revealed in song
The pain is real
When you can't feel
But we make a choice
And we raise our voice
And we go into the void
What the heart leaves behind
Makes the past seem right
What the heart fails to learn
Is revealed in flight
When minds can't cope
We give up hope
What the heart leads us to
Is what we must find
What the heart doesn't know
What the heart doesn't know
https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... lead-vocal
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- KVRAF
- 1683 posts since 29 Sep, 2013
That would be my less then two cents.
Not going into the Vocaloid debat here at all, so I'll keep it up all about intros.
"Take Me To The Stars" and "What The Heart Doesn't Know" have both pretty interesting moments during the piano's intro.
Some dynamics happening, mood being setting, etc.
But, strings do not relate/connect to what's happening.
Being even just about dynamics flow/intent (not talking about notes choice).
Some "per voice" playing with lot of expression would really help, imho.
Is this make any sense to you?
edit: about the applause, sounds like phasing issue?
Not going into the Vocaloid debat here at all, so I'll keep it up all about intros.
"Take Me To The Stars" and "What The Heart Doesn't Know" have both pretty interesting moments during the piano's intro.
Some dynamics happening, mood being setting, etc.
But, strings do not relate/connect to what's happening.
Being even just about dynamics flow/intent (not talking about notes choice).
Some "per voice" playing with lot of expression would really help, imho.
Is this make any sense to you?
edit: about the applause, sounds like phasing issue?
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21196 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Let's get the applause out of the way first. Downloaded wav from some royalty free site so I guess there could be any number of things wrong with it. I can't hear it so there isn't a lot I can do about it unless somebody can point out what's wrong with it and exactly how to fix it, short of getting another wav file.nordickvr wrote:That would be my less then two cents.
Not going into the Vocaloid debat here at all, so I'll keep it up all about intros.
"Take Me To The Stars" and "What The Heart Doesn't Know" have both pretty interesting moments during the piano's intro.
Some dynamics happening, mood being setting, etc.
But, strings do not relate/connect to what's happening.
Being even just about dynamics flow/intent (not talking about notes choice).
Some "per voice" playing with lot of expression would really help, imho.
Is this make any sense to you?
edit: about the applause, sounds like phasing issue?
As for the strings, sure, valid criticism. I'm no expert orchestrator by any stretch of the imagination so there could be any number of things wrong with my orchestration. I'm working on it little by little and trying to improve. Maybe someday I will.
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- KVRAF
- 1683 posts since 29 Sep, 2013
I wasn't even thinking about orchestration though.wagtunes wrote: ...As for the strings, sure, valid criticism. I'm no expert orchestrator by any stretch of the imagination so there could be any number of things wrong with my orchestration. I'm working on it little by little and trying to improve. Maybe someday I will.
As a proposal, may be simply play your strings altogether with a basic ensemble patch.
E.g., I think you own Omni which offers quite options on board.
Then, replay each voices one after the others with all your attention onto expression.
Also, when doing the ensemble patch track, you could restrict yourself to a determinate maximum number of voices.
Well, justa thing to try if you didn't already made it.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21196 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Under normal conditions this is certainly an option. However, with this project, I have a fixed setup. I'm emulating a live performance for all these tracks with a "real" orchestra, with each section of the orchestra placed on the sound stage where a traditional section would be placed. The software I'm using is Vienna MIR Pro 24, which is a sound stage emulation. It accounts for both panning (left and right) and depth (front and back) of each section with the "band" placed in the middle of the stage.nordickvr wrote:I wasn't even thinking about orchestration though.wagtunes wrote: ...As for the strings, sure, valid criticism. I'm no expert orchestrator by any stretch of the imagination so there could be any number of things wrong with my orchestration. I'm working on it little by little and trying to improve. Maybe someday I will.
As a proposal, may be simply play your strings altogether with a basic ensemble patch.
E.g., I think you own Omni which offers quite options on board.
Then, replay each voices one after the others with all your attention onto expression.
Also, when doing the ensemble patch track, you could restrict yourself to a determinate maximum number of voices.
Well, justa thing to try if you didn't already made it.
So your solution would not fit in line with my vision for this project as it would remove the live players from the equation.
Aside from that, as I am trying to work on my orchestration skills, I am trying to move away from the "string patch" and stuff like that.
Eventually, hopefully anyway, my skills will improve and a piece like this, set up the way it is, will start to sound better.
But thanks for the advice.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21196 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Another track from "The Vocaloids Live At Carnegie Hall"
Reaching For The Stars
Reaching for the stars
Cannot reach too far
Fearing that I'll fall
Then I lose it all
Reaching for my dreams
Easy so it seems
But it isn't true
Reaching out for you
And the distance grows
No one really knows
All the pain I feel
All that pain that's so real
Reaching for a sign
Thinking all is fine
Fooling myself so
Maybe I won't know
Reaching for a place
With a friendly face
But no one is there
No one seems to care
Reaching for the stars
https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -the-stars
Reaching For The Stars
Reaching for the stars
Cannot reach too far
Fearing that I'll fall
Then I lose it all
Reaching for my dreams
Easy so it seems
But it isn't true
Reaching out for you
And the distance grows
No one really knows
All the pain I feel
All that pain that's so real
Reaching for a sign
Thinking all is fine
Fooling myself so
Maybe I won't know
Reaching for a place
With a friendly face
But no one is there
No one seems to care
Reaching for the stars
https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -the-stars
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21196 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Another one from "The Vocaloids Live At Carnegie Hall"
Frodo And The Lost Frog
Something in the burning bush
Creature small and frail
Crying in the lonely night
Green with fragile tail
Frodo sees him lying there
Takes him to his home
Nurses him to health so that
He won't be alone
Friends they would become
Soon they would be one
And the years they went so fast
Playing as they would
Frodo cared for little frog
Did the best he could
But one day the frog he died
Frodo he was sad
But remembered the good times
All the ones they had
Buried him that night
Praying by the light
https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... lead-vocal
Frodo And The Lost Frog
Something in the burning bush
Creature small and frail
Crying in the lonely night
Green with fragile tail
Frodo sees him lying there
Takes him to his home
Nurses him to health so that
He won't be alone
Friends they would become
Soon they would be one
And the years they went so fast
Playing as they would
Frodo cared for little frog
Did the best he could
But one day the frog he died
Frodo he was sad
But remembered the good times
All the ones they had
Buried him that night
Praying by the light
https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... lead-vocal