MXXX: Finding a balance between Normal/Envelope mode Modulator features

[Annabanna]

Since I often find myself in either Normal or Envelope mode and wanting the features that seem to be exclusive to the other mode, I wanted to list the differences as I see them to ask if I'm missing anything, or if there are tips or tricks to achieving a blend of features somehow.

In each of the below, the mode listed in the headline is the behavior I want.





MIDI triggering: Normal Mode.

Normal mode has a MIDI reset (re)trigger module that is exactly what I want. It allows triggering by note, note on messages only, etc. In the Envelope mode, for some reason, all that seems to go away, and I see only the binary option to use MIDI triggering or not.

Sync Options: Normal Mode.

Those in Normal mode behave exactly as expected, and like any other plugin. Change the tempo, and everything stretches or shrinks to fit the new tempo. Those in Envelope mode appear to only be shortcuts to finding a particular unit size at the given tempo. Changing the temp dramatically results in a jump in size.

Positive and negative modulation: Normal mode.

If I need for the modulation to go both above and below the starting and ending level, as far as I know, Envelope mode simply is not an option as the ADSR graphs always assume the bottom right and left corners as starting points as opposed to the starting points being in the middle in Normal Mode.

Positive or negative only modulation: Envelope mode.

If I need modulation that is only positive OR negative, but not both, this is the Way Envelope mode naturally works. I am not aware of any way to force the beginning and ending points to either the top or bottom of the window in Normal mode other than the default position in the center. It's not a big deal, but attaining a positive height of 12dB is straight forward in Envelope mode, but requires instead sending a value of 24dB in Normal mode... which essentially cuts the usable range in half.

Custom Shape automation: Normal mode.

As far as I can tell, all the custom shape points, and all of their parameters are fully automateable in Normal, mod, but there is no control access to any of the points or their attributes in Envelope mode. Unfortunately, in Normal mode, automation can be quite problematic because any time the tallest object decreases, the output does not, but rather the rest moves up as if that object's height is the new full window height. This makes many types of automation impossible, and I'm not aware of any way to disable it.





There are a few others, but they're a bit tougher to describe, and may require pics, so I'll start with these.

Am I misunderstanding any of the above?

Is there a way in any of these cases to get the features in one mode that seem to be exclusive to the other?

[Annabanna]

The part I care most about here is the MIDI triggering in Envelope mode. It certainly looks like all the MIDI reset (re)trigger options in the Normal mode just aren't available in the Envelope mode for some reason. It appears to be just triggering with no regard to those settings, and with no way to use note on only.

Am I missing some way of retaining those options within the Envelope mode?

[MeldaProduction]

An attempt to understand and answer


MIDI triggering: Normal Mode
You understand it correctly, I think. Envelopes follow audio or MIDI, not both. Not sure if that's what you are asking.

Sync
Well, tempo syncing envelopes basically rounds all values to the nearest musical unit.

Positive/Negative
I just don't understand. But I remember some image of yours creating some hardcore envelope with negative values, that's not possible I'm afraid.

Automation:
Every automation parameter requires some memory & CPU, even if not used. So we need to optimize. In some plugins there are thousands of parameters already, so... Custom ADSR shapes are so extreme, that these are just not available.

[Annabanna]

OK, thx.

The biggest question I have is about the MIDI triggering. The options in the Normal section are very useful. I'm using that mode almost exclusively now for that reason.

It seems to just be on or off with no options in the Envelope section. Is there any way to get more MIDI triggering control in the Envelope section? I don't see it directly, but making sure I'm not missing something in MIDI settings or options to perhaps filter or otherwise gain a bit more control over MIDI triggering options in Envelope mode.

[MeldaProduction]

You mean like MIDI filtering? In envelope it is indeed ON/OFF only, personally I'd rather avoid making more options there, it's like a rocket already, but who knows...

[Annabanna]

You mean like MIDI filtering? In envelope it is indeed ON/OFF only, personally I'd rather avoid making more options there, it's like a rocket already, but who knows...

Or just like the options that already exist in Normal mode. Those are great. I guess I was just a bit confused as to there being lots of options in one mode, and none in another, so wondering if I had missed some way to use those same options.

I may have worked it all out, though. I've worked out now how to transform the Normal Mode output to force positive or negative only without having to double the input values so it behaves like Envelope mode, and I suppose I could also work out a Hz to ms conversion to allow time based control, so it looks like I may have worked out how to basically force Normal mode to work like Envelope mode when desired... which lets me use the (quite good) MIDI triggering options. Yay!