MSoundFactory Wishlist

[dmbaer]

. . .
4). Ability to export multiple files for different notes.
5). Ability to export multiple files for different velocity layers.

6). Optional creation of SFZ file to tie multiple exported files together as a single SFZ definition.

[werzel]

The ability to modulate and transform signal shapes in a CPU friendly manner.

[spencerlee]

How about allow adding 3rd party plugins. Like adding another synth and then effecting that sound.

[MeldaProduction]

Sorry Spencer, no hosting 3rd party stuff... that's a gateway to hell and we don't need it .

[DavidCarlyon]

Man i cannot agree with this more.
I have been using avenger a lot recently, it has a shaper which is per-voice waveshaping. plus you can add as many as you like and route whichever oscillators you like to any of the shapers. But man, it does take a lot of CPU.
You can do this in falcon too by appling the effect at the keygroup level, very very very awesome. In fact, with falcon the CPU usage is very reasonable.

Poly Effects

For example a distortion sounds completely different when it is "per voice" as opposed to a global/standard effect. These type of effects will probably need to be much simpler as they take huge amounts of CPU.
If you are playing just 4 notes with just 4 voice unison then that is already 16 voices and if there is some release that overlaps the next chord, then we have 32 voices! It basically means there would be 32 versions of that effect running at the same time! CPU killer.
However if Vojtech can make some super low CPU basic FXs then we should be able to run them.
There is already some competition out there with these type of effects in the synth and the results are great, the same sound just cannot be achieved with global/standard effects.

I thought we could name these effects as follows to differentiate them from the standard ones:

MPolyDelay, MPolyVerb, MPolyDistortion etc.

[jmg8]

Hehe, yes, I own both Avenger and Falcon. Per voice FX are great. Vojtech has confirmed they will be in MSoundFactory, so that is great news!

[dmbaer]

Just started playing around with the beta, and it seems clear the possibilities here are mind-blowing.

I note there's currently no easy-mode, and I'm not sure what the direction is on that. But in in thinking about this, it occurs to me that something new is needed here that we don't normally have in Melda software. MSoundFactory could quite possibly become a top-ten synth in terms of power and flexibility. But if it is to enjoy major market penetration, it will need to have much third-party support for sound libraries. To that end, how will that be addressed?

It seems to me we will need straightforward library export/import capabilities. We will also need library file management mechanisms - if multi-samples are to be part of the capabilities, users will want the ability to store these where they choose. Likewise, there should be a way for sound developers to package everything up neatly: wave tables, multi-samples, convolution impulses, and anything else that goes into a preset. An encryption capability might also be necessary so that sound developers can protect their intellectual property in the same way they can when creating libraries for Kontakt, as one example.

I'd be interested in hearing what others think on this topic.

[Chandlerhimself]

dmbaer - I wondered about the lack of an easy mode too, but this is obviously just a test/first draft. I'm thinking it might be easier to have an easy mode for the FX and for the synth part. Maybe 2 separate modes would be easier. I think there are a lot of interesting ways this could go. IMO its too soon to really say anything because there are only 3 modules.

As far as exporting stuff and samples I agree, but I don't think it will be a problem. MDrummer now has packs that has samples encoded in it, so I'm sure the same could be done with other data such as wavetables. Personally I'm not too worried about it because it seems like Vojtech already has a solution ready if he chooses to implement it. I hope more creators make packs for MSF. This has the potential to be an amazing tool for sound design and all sorts of new interesting sounds.

[nichttuntun]

Hi Vojtech,
I wrote earlier that I just wish for you to surprise me with this plugin.

But I have a further wish now.

Please don't make it an all crowd pleaser. I mean with that that I wish it to be a heaven for experiments, chaos and insanely unpredictable results too if one likes that.

Don't get me wrong but e.g. MPowersynth is capable of many things and sounds great but I am honest...it is boring and standard too. Without the included modular efx- system it would be soon forgotten as a stand alone synth.

Your new plugin should easily hold it up against the most creative products on the market like ICARUS, PALINDROME, INFINITE PRO, SYNPLANT, APARILLO, PADSHOP PRO, BIOTEK2, BLUE2, WAVERAZOR and whatnot. There I mean not only modulation options and inventional synthesis like fractalize or software from PLOGUE or SOUNDEMOTE (look at their generators... awesome stuff), but also the way how to use the plugin. SYNPLANT or APARILLO never would have been so popular wouldn't they own such an amazing modulation concept and APARILLO has one of the most surprisingly amazing out there I know.

Okay... just surprise us

[dmbaer]

I know it's very early in the game, but I'd really appreciate a tiny bit of guidance about anticipated MSF directions.

1. Is the basic approach to defining "easy" preset screens going to be adopted for MSF? In other words, should we just be thinking about these in much the same way we design MXXX presets with respect to user interface presentation?

2. The FX tab has column numbers. Does that signify anything (ala. Zebra's FX grid)? Will these correspond to output slots on the sound generator grid? Just a clue here, please.

[Chandlerhimself]

I know it's very early in the game, but I'd really appreciate a tiny bit of guidance about anticipated MSF directions.

1. Is the basic approach to defining "easy" preset screens going to be adopted for MSF? In other words, should we just be thinking about these in much the same way we design MXXX presets with respect to user interface presentation?

2. The FX tab has column numbers. Does that signify anything (ala. Zebra's FX grid)? Will these correspond to output slots on the sound generator grid? Just a clue here, please.

1. I sent an email to Vojtech and he said there can’t be an easy screen for the generator for technical reasons. He said he might add a generator module to the FX section though.

2. Yes the numbered inputs corespond to the generator outputs. This was actually my request, because IMO it makes sense for a situation where you want to use a vocoder on a sample and a osc. There are a lot of other instances where it could be useful also.


As for point 1, I hope that there is an option for a “Sound Factory” model in the FX section that has an easy screen. I wouldn’t even care if it didn’t have the per voice capability. I’ll try to explain my reasoning in the next post.

[Chandlerhimself]

After talking to Vojtech it seems an edit screen can’t be made using the per-voice generator section. Although this doesn’t seem possible I’m hoping something similar can be put into the FX section or maybe a 3rd matrix can be added with non-per-voice plugins. I like the per-voice plugins, but most of the time I don’t really need that type of functionality. Although modular synths can be fun, making even simple sounds with a completely modular interface can be tedious. Also layering 2 presets without this feature would be impossible. I’d like edit screens and the ablility to load full presets(with edit screens) inside a matrix.

I think it would be best to have both features and perhaps a 3rd matrix would work and allow both approaches to work together.

[dmbaer]

Well, I cannot imagine MSoundFactory being a commercial success without the ability for casual users to easily use a library of presets. Geeks might get totally blissed-out when confronted with the raw sound-generation grid and multiparameter array, but most folks will simply be scared away, I would predict. Even if not supporting the full glory of easy-mode screens as we currently enjoy them in MXXX, there should at least be a bank of macro controls (or something along those lines) to present to the casual user, I would think.

[nichttuntun]

Maybe it's not a tool for casual users... what I would highly appreciate. Why would casual users use highly complex synths- and effects system anyway. For these kind of users there are already tons and tons and tons of generic synth and stuff out there. I would like to see an interesting new system which forces you to do things from scratch. So you learn the tool from scratch and it's full potential over time and you are forced to get creative as well. There is already enough generic and boring commercial and popular music productions out there and they have become more and more boring over the last decades. Time to do things different. Have joy.

[Chandlerhimself]

Well, I cannot imagine MSoundFactory being a commercial success without the ability for casual users to easily use a library of presets. Geeks might get totally blissed-out when confronted with the raw sound-generation grid and multiparameter array, but most folks will simply be scared away, I would predict. Even if not supporting the full glory of easy-mode screens as we currently enjoy them in MXXX, there should at least be a bank of macro controls (or something along those lines) to present to the casual user, I would think.

I think there will be presets and there are MPs, but IMO the way to program it and altering presets might be a huge PITA. I think the MPs could be used as macro controls, so of course that will make things a bit easier, but think about making an FM synth out of what we currently have. Of course I imagine things will change in the future because this is still the early stages, but I'm also worried this will too troublesome for people to use.

Maybe it's not a tool for casual users... what I would highly appreciate. Why would casual users use highly complex synths- and effects system anyway. For these kind of users there are already tons and tons and tons of generic synth and stuff out there. I would like to see an interesting new system which forces you to do things from scratch. So you learn the tool from scratch and it's full potential over time and you are forced to get creative as well. There is already enough generic and boring commercial and popular music productions out there and they have become more and more boring over the last decades. Time to do things different. Have joy.

I don't want to dumb the synth down, but I'm worried that MSF will become a limited synth because of the time it takes to program. I love making things from scratch, but I don't like being forced to do it. My fear is that if you have to make things from scratch every time, nobody will want to use it. My worry is that I'll end up using 3 instances of MSF, sending them all to a bus and the processing them with MXXX instead of just using one MSF. I think the interesting thing about MSF is that potentially you can do everything inside one plugin instead of using multiple plugins and your DAW.


I've been thinking about it and besides what I mentioned above(having a non-per-voice matrix or having another synth section in the FX), another possibility would be to have the ADSRs connected to each module/plugin instead of globally and then increasing the complexity of the modules/plugins. For example add a new module with 3 OSCs, White noise and a filter. With something like this and self contained ADSR/LFOs you could easily save mini-presets and combine things easily if you wanted. Of course you could keep the more basic modules too, but having a few modules with common combinations would save a lot of time. The only downside is it would just make more work for Vojtech instead of letting the community do it.