Feature Request : MPE support

[Echoes in the Attic]

I was looking to explore using Diva again with the continuum and I'm wondering if anyone is trying to use it in a similar fashion. I'm curious to know if there is a way to assign channel pressure to completely control the VCA. This would allow all dynamics of the sound to be based on pressure.

Looking at the posted video above seems to confirm that we need to assign each individual channel to a CC but I see we are missing Pressure there, so there is no way I can assign it either.

I'd be curious to know if u-he is interested on developing a bit Diva based on input from people using expressive MPE controllers or the idea is that Diva is first and foremost a vintage emulator to be used with a traditional or augmented keyboard. I'm ok either way (many synths out there) but there's a lot of nice sounding DSP work on Diva that would be interesting to explore but the more I try to explore it, the more I remember coming back to the conclusion that Diva needs tuneable matrix assignment.

Btw, some interesting views on current MPE implementation: http://hakenaudio.anckorage.com/mpe/

That video is terrible. It is absolutely not how you want to use mpe. You want to use the expressions (like pressure or cc74) as modulators in a mod matrix or directly modulating a parameter. Not assigning midi learn. So to control the vca in diva with pressure just assign the vca amp modulator to be pressure.

[bafonso]

You want to use the expressions (like pressure or cc74) as modulators in a mod matrix or directly modulating a parameter. Not assigning midi learn. So to control the vca in diva with pressure just assign the vca amp modulator to be pressure.

Yes, but how do you achieve that? I feel I must be missing something obvious In the Main, there is Amplifier | Pan. If you set Env1 or Gate and set it to 0, no sound ever comes out. You can set Pressure to modulate the VCA (Vol Mod) but the modulation level is very small for low volumes, which makes me think it is a % of the initial Volume, does not add/subtract up to certain amount. Since if I set Volume to Max I can modulate to silence (negative valence) using the Vol Mod, I wonder if this is not a bug or unforeseen use case. Unfortunately, one cannot modulate based on a previous value if it's 0...

[bafonso]

Bitwig 2.4 beta 2

For a moment I dreamed there was a beta Diva version with better MPE implementation

[Echoes in the Attic]

Bitwig 2.4 beta 2

For a moment I dreamed there was a beta Diva version with better MPE implementation

Divas mpe implementation is pretty much complete for what the synth does (although expression scaling would be cool).

[Echoes in the Attic]

You want to use the expressions (like pressure or cc74) as modulators in a mod matrix or directly modulating a parameter. Not assigning midi learn. So to control the vca in diva with pressure just assign the vca amp modulator to be pressure.

Yes, but how do you achieve that? I feel I must be missing something obvious In the Main, there is Amplifier | Pan. If you set Env1 or Gate and set it to 0, no sound ever comes out. You can set Pressure to modulate the VCA (Vol Mod) but the modulation level is very small for low volumes, which makes me think it is a % of the initial Volume, does not add/subtract up to certain amount. Since if I set Volume to Max I can modulate to silence (negative valence) using the Vol Mod, I wonder if this is not a bug or unforeseen use case. Unfortunately, one cannot modulate based on a previous value if it's 0...

I don’t have my computer for a couple months but I think you would just modulate the amp volume by pressure and make sure the amp envelope is fully open or not affecting the amp volume at all. Someone else with their setup active might be able to help more.

[Urs]

Thing is, in softsynths VCAs typically need to be controlled by a modulations source which *ends*, such as an envelope. If it doesn't, there's no reliable way really to put voices on bypass, which is the expected CPU-saving behavior. Unfortunately, in Diva that's a pretty essential thing we need to do.

[Howard]

You want to use the expressions (like pressure or cc74) as modulators in a mod matrix or directly modulating a parameter. Not assigning midi learn. So to control the vca in diva with pressure just assign the vca amp modulator to be pressure.

Yes, but how do you achieve that? I feel I must be missing something obvious In the Main, there is Amplifier | Pan. If you set Env1 or Gate and set it to 0, no sound ever comes out. You can set Pressure to modulate the VCA (Vol Mod) but the modulation level is very small for low volumes, which makes me think it is a % of the initial Volume, does not add/subtract up to certain amount. Since if I set Volume to Max I can modulate to silence (negative valence) using the Vol Mod, I wonder if this is not a bug or unforeseen use case. Unfortunately, one cannot modulate based on a previous value if it's 0...

VCA modulation *scales* the current Volume from 0% through 100% (center) to 200%, so you need to use a bipolar source. Try this workaround: Go into MODIFICATIONS, select INVERT -> 'StackIndex', ADD -> Invert + Pressure. Back in MAIN, use 'Add' to modulate the VCA. (StackIndex is normally 1, a constant). Bipolar pressure

If you set both Volume and Vol Mod to maximum, zero pressure give you silence and maximum pressure modulates the VCA up to 100%.

[bafonso]

You want to use the expressions (like pressure or cc74) as modulators in a mod matrix or directly modulating a parameter. Not assigning midi learn. So to control the vca in diva with pressure just assign the vca amp modulator to be pressure.

Yes, but how do you achieve that? I feel I must be missing something obvious In the Main, there is Amplifier | Pan. If you set Env1 or Gate and set it to 0, no sound ever comes out. You can set Pressure to modulate the VCA (Vol Mod) but the modulation level is very small for low volumes, which makes me think it is a % of the initial Volume, does not add/subtract up to certain amount. Since if I set Volume to Max I can modulate to silence (negative valence) using the Vol Mod, I wonder if this is not a bug or unforeseen use case. Unfortunately, one cannot modulate based on a previous value if it's 0...

VCA modulation *scales* the current Volume from 0% through 100% (center) to 200%, so you need to use a bipolar source. Try this workaround: Go into MODIFICATIONS, select INVERT -> 'StackIndex', ADD -> Invert + Pressure. Back in MAIN, use 'Add' to modulate the VCA. (StackIndex is normally 1, a constant). Bipolar pressure

If you set both Volume and Vol Mod to maximum, zero pressure give you silence and maximum pressure modulates the VCA up to 100%.

Oh, that did work!! Thank you so much Howard, I don't think I would have ever been able to get there without your help.

It's been fun to revisit some of the Diva presets and tweak them with your tips (locking ftw) and I'm getting a better hang of what's possible. I'm sure there's many more tricks I am missing... I'm getting some clicks that one would get in an analog synth due to DC offsets.. I'm guessing that it has to do with the fact that I'm not letting Diva control the envelopes I'm sharing a little bit of improv bass through an "u-he chain" to show the clicking I'm getting. The delay exacerbates it..

https://soundcloud.com/bafonso/diva-bas ... st/s-leEU2

[bafonso]

Thing is, in softsynths VCAs typically need to be controlled by a modulations source which *ends*, such as an envelope. If it doesn't, there's no reliable way really to put voices on bypass, which is the expected CPU-saving behavior. Unfortunately, in Diva that's a pretty essential thing we need to do.

Would this be solved by having lower polyphony with voices always on? I'm sure most people would be happy with 6-8 max polyphony always on for this use case. Just asking in case you ever consider adding a little something to this gorgeous lady

[aMUSEd]

So I have a Seaboard block now - what's the easiest way to get up and running with u-he synths, what works and what doesn't? I have Logic, Waveform and Bitwig which I believe all support MPE.

It’s going to be a bit different in each host but in bitwig it’s easy. Set the u-he plugin to “force mpe”,

Where do I find that setting?

[Echoes in the Attic]

So I have a Seaboard block now - what's the easiest way to get up and running with u-he synths, what works and what doesn't? I have Logic, Waveform and Bitwig which I believe all support MPE.

It’s going to be a bit different in each host but in bitwig it’s easy. Set the u-he plugin to “force mpe”,

Where do I find that setting?

Right-click the bitwig device, it’s a menu option there.

[aMUSEd]

Thanks - I presume I also need to toggle convert Pitchbend?

PB range is set to +-24 (so 48 right?)

[Echoes in the Attic]

Thanks - I presume I also need to toggle convert Pitchbend?

PB range is set to +-24 (so 48 right?)

No you don’t want to convert the pitchbend. Not sure but I think that’s meant to concert to normal pitchbend but you want to leave it per channel/note.

Bend range should be set to whatever your linnstrument and vst is set to. Normal mpe is actually +/-48 but you can use other ranges now in bitwig, though like I said I believe the latest beta has a bug with this that screws up midi coming from hardware after recording it, for anything other than +/-24. See the bitwig forum for info there.

[pdxindy]

So I have a Seaboard block now - what's the easiest way to get up and running with u-he synths, what works and what doesn't? I have Logic, Waveform and Bitwig which I believe all support MPE.

It’s going to be a bit different in each host but in bitwig it’s easy. Set the u-he plugin to “force mpe”,

Where do I find that setting?

Right-click the bitwig device, it’s a menu option there.

Also, selecting the device puts the option in the inspector as well... along with PB range (Bitwig 2.4 beta 2)

[aMUSEd]

Thanks - I presume I also need to toggle convert Pitchbend?

PB range is set to +-24 (so 48 right?)

No you don’t want to convert the pitchbend. Not sure but I think that’s meant to concert to normal pitchbend but you want to leave it per channel/note.

Bend range should be set to whatever your linnstrument and vst is set to. Normal mpe is actually +/-48 but you can use other ranges now in bitwig, though like I said I believe the latest beta has a bug with this that screws up midi coming from hardware after recording it, for anything other than +/-24. See the bitwig forum for info there.

+/-48 sounds rather excessive, I thought most synths don't go above +-24 usually so assumed a range of 48 would break down into -24 to + 24, +-48 is 96!