U-He Diva Sostenuto Pedal CC66 not working?

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sebber wrote:Sorry, but I disagree. First for the solo: if you have a synth that has "lowest note priority" you could simply play it in the tapping style you describe by holding the lowest note in the described places. You can, trained pianist that he is, also simply play it with your fingers, that is totally doable. I wonder if he really uses the sustain pedal here at all, it sounds like mono legato mode with a little glide to me.
That's actually me playing the solo. On the original record, it was played by Jens Johansson (keyboard player of Stratovarius). And yes, he uses sustain pedal when doing monophonic leads like this. ;) Everyone in the metal genre who plays fast synth leads like this are using sustain pedal - it's a fact. Anyone who doesn't, just sounds sloppy as f**k because... things get very disjointed when sustain pedal is not used! Rudess has Juillard schooling yet he still uses sustain pedal for his ultra fast monophonic leads. And his trills don't get eaten like they do in u-he synths... because on Korgs and Kurzweils (and Rolands, too, IIRC) it works as it's supposed to! :party:

Also, there's no glide in the sound, and the keyboard only has last note priority, not low note priority. Other things would be screwed up on a low key priority board with sustain pedal pressed...

sebber wrote:Playing it in the tapping style is _not_ any easier, because you can't just play staccato and hope it's fast enough but you have to lift your fingers exactly in time and that's actually more difficult than just concentrating to play the thing with your fingers as you would normally.
Yes it's easier as it's physically less stressful and it makes you play such things faster than you could by individually pressing any keys. AND you can play things holding a sustain pedal that you cannot physically play out in a very legato way on a piano (stretching outside hand's range). It's why sustain pedal is used with last note priority in order to legato everything much more easily and to be able to do it FAST.
sebber wrote:I'm sure there are even more ways to go, however, there's no single logic way to go about it. The sustain pedal on a piano is too much a different technology to the voice allocation in a monophonic synth, whether legato mode or not.
Disagreed there. If you're doing note retriggering to previously held keys when releasing the currently played key in monophonic mode (if there ARE still pressed keys, of course), then sustain pedal should NOT affect it. Regardless of which mono mode we're talking about (legato or regular mono where notes are resetting envelopes on each played). It is only logical, and plenty of software and hardware instruments support this logic. Howard understands it very well, so I'm hopeful that this is going to happen across all u-he synths eventually (although I'd love it to be done yesterday, but I know the pitfalls of development far too well).

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I promise to grump about this until I no longer can ;-)
BTW: What may seem a simple tweak to us could actually mean some major framework surgery...

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I am aware it might not be a simple tweak in the code. :)

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Howard wrote:
Urs wrote:Errrm, when you hold C, then press Sustain pedal, then press D - you get D. When you lift D, it naturally remains at D because Hold pedal still pressed...?
Just try the trills as ED suggested and you will get it :-)
Why would you even hold the sustain pedal if you want to same behavior as not holding the pedal?

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EvilDragon wrote: The trill was just a showcase point. There are several other places in that piece that would break when using sustain pedal in u-he synths, that are not trills, and not vibrato (all the vibratos are just pitch bend, aftertouch sucks for vibrato IMHO). For example, bar 11 is done by holding that D all the time and just tapping all the other keys staccato, with sustain pedal pressed. This part is murdered with u-he synths :( The 4th-to-1st finger same key repetition in bar 13 would also be murdered. There are also short trills in bars 2, 4, 8 and 9.

Pitch shouldn't be frozen by sustain pedal, period. It has nothing to do with how piano works this time, though - it's how it works on a great majority of hardware synths that I have played over the years. Nearly any rompler works like that - and for a good reason.
I'm not understanding... you get the exact behavior you want by just not using the sustain pedal... so why do you want the sustain pedal to do nothing?

It's funny... over many years, I have never tried using the sustain pedal for legato sounds... only ever used it for polyphonic sounds.

EDIT: okay... I see what you mean... you want to use the sustain pedal to make sure you do not release the previous note too early losing overlap.

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FM8:
Wow, using this synth since 20 years and didn't know it supports sustenuto. :D

Small bug: When releasing the pedal the notes on the virtual keyboard gui are not released....

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pdxindy wrote:EDIT: okay... I see what you mean... you want to use the sustain pedal to make sure you do not release the previous note too early losing overlap.
Precisely. Extremely important when your solo is a looong looong legato line. And fast. ;)

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EvilDragon wrote:
sebber wrote:Playing it in the tapping style is _not_ any easier, because you can't just play staccato and hope it's fast enough but you have to lift your fingers exactly in time and that's actually more difficult than just concentrating to play the thing with your fingers as you would normally.
Yes it's easier as it's physically less stressful and it makes you play such things faster than you could by individually pressing any keys. AND you can play things holding a sustain pedal that you cannot physically play out in a very legato way on a piano (stretching outside hand's range). It's why sustain pedal is used with last note priority in order to legato everything much more easily and to be able to do it FAST.
I am absolutely with ED! :tu:

And sebber: those synth players have learned very well when to lift their fingers
exactly :wink:
Those players also using their other hand to play something else on another synth like
background bass or pads and still able to play tricks outside hand's range with this technic.

The sostenuto would be also very useful for live players.
Doesn't we have something like this already on the Hive keyboard with double clicking?
Maybe that could be translated to pedal command?

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